This is from the fram site.

[Rick]

Is this possible?

And like the FRAM® Tough Guard oil filter, the Extra Guard filter features our advanced synthetic glass and cellulose media, which is a combination of synthetic glass and cellulose uniquely formulated for top-rated efficiency for the life of the filter.

 

[rob-the-oil-nut]

Is what possible? That they use good or even "premium" materials?
Maybe someone from Fram reads this site and has decided to make a really good filter.
Is THAT possible?
I sense that if they made a "top 5" filter that was on par with, say, K&N, few people on this forum would buy them (except for stuff like 1000 mile cleansing instances)
FRAM: If you are listening, and want to get an endorsement from Bob, I for one would encourage it. You have some work ahead of you, but could start by ensuring you have the likes of Bob giving direction. You get Patman or MoleKule or the like endorsing Fram, I'll stock up.
Is THAT possible?

 

[Rick]

I thought I would take a look at there site and when I did it sayes that the filters contain synthetic media. I thought the filters were only made with cheap material to make as much money as possible.

 

[Mystic]

Rick, I used FRAM for a long time. I was a FRAM guy. I became so used to buying FRAM that when I decided to switch to other brands, it was actually hard not to reach for that orange can. I was a company guy.

But then I had some problems with some FRAM oil filters, came across the Oil Filter Study on the internet, and other information that convinced me that FRAM was not making a good product. I have nothing against FRAM, but if they want my business they must produce oil filters on a par with the other brands that are available.

The cheaper FRAM oil filters have been examined by some people who seem to know what they are doing, and these filters are not rated very highly. The more expensive FRAM oil filters may or may not be good, but if I can buy a K&N for $9.99 plus tax and the FRAM X2 Extended Guard costs something like 12 or 13 dollars, plus tax, which oil filter do you think I am going to buy? Which oil filter would you buy?

FRAM needs to produce quality oil filters for a price that is comparable to other brands that are available. As far as I have been able to determine, the replacement oil filters on Fords are Purolator, and I think the replacement oil filters on GM vehicles are also Purolator. If Purolator is considered good enough for the car and truck manufacturers, and Purolator can produce a decent oil filter for about 4 bucks, FRAM should be able to do this also.

 

[Rick]

Well the funniest thing is that my brother always uses Fram filters I have told him that there are better ones out there yet he chooses to use the fram filters. I have yet to see him have a problem with them so far and he drives the stink out of his honda. So I desided to look at the fram site and they indicate that they are using synthetic fibers in there filters. Have they changed the way they are making the filters or is this a lie?

 

[turbochem]

quote:

---

came across the Oil Filter Study on the internet

---

"Study".....very interesting word.......

quote:

---

examined by some people who seem to know what they are doing, and these filters are not rated very highly

---

Who are these people who "seem to know what they are doing?" Set up a site, cut open a few cans, snap some picks.........and never update it!!! What is their rating system exactly??

Until someone can find a way to "study" oil filters on their actual performance (I thought they had, until Mr. Dremel Tool came on the scene), I will be a skeptic....

 

[Patman]

Even if Fram used good filtering media, there is still the problem with their shoddy bypass valves and antidrainback valves. Plus they usually have less filtering media than other filters too. No thanks, I'll stick with K&Ns and Wix made filters myself (and would also consider the Supertechs if we had them up here)

 

[GSV]

Based on my reading Fram was a pretty good filter until 1995. Allied Signal purchased Fram (or the name) and the downfall started soon thereafter.

I think the guys out there shredding filters with dremel tools have done enthusiasts a favor. Physical construction is an indicator of quality as far as I'm concerned. Most people only see advertisements and store displays. I would guess that very few people can even name the parts of an oil filter.

If I am going to spend my money on a filter I want one that has solid construction (no cardboard) a decent amount of surface area and an ADV and by-pass valve that inspire confidence. AFTER these criteria have been met we can then discuss filtration efficiency and flow characteristics.

Frams just don't make the cut for me.

FWIW I ran a 1985 Saab 900 to 300,000 miles on conventional oil using mostly Mann filters but i did throw an occasional Fram onto it when they were on sale. My mechanic wasn't happy about it but I didn't sweat oil and filters back then (like I do now).

 

[Mystic]

Just another thing. The last time I checked, I was unable to find the Oil Filter Study on the internet. And the second study I mentioned also seems to have disappeared. I don't know what oil filter studies may be on the internet right now-I have not checked.

But the two studies that I mentioned were done by talented men who seemed to make some valid observations.

It seems to me that we don't have to necessarily work for FRAM or Purolator or whoever, and be an expert on oil filter design, to be able to cut an oil filter apart and tell if it looks good or not. I don't think that a degree in Physics is required.

Do you prefer cardboard endcaps, or metal? Maybe cardboard is just as good, but I prefer metal.

Do you prefer plastic valves, or metal? When you examine the plastic valve, can it be made to fail easily?

Do you prefer very little filtering media, or a lot? When you take the oil filter apart, are you going to be impressed by filtering material that may be crushed?

Do you want for your oil filter to come complete with PTFE in it?

Exactly how hard is it to design and build a decent quality oil filter? It can't be that much of an engineering achievement. Somebody should be capable of it.

 

[UncleS2]

A guy who claimed to work for a company that made filter media paper used to post on the Edmunds board a lot. He claimed that the filter paper Fram used was actually pretty good. If that was all there was to consider, Fram would be OK. But the cardbard endcaps, skimpy paper surface area(some models), & poor AD & BP valve designs all ensure that they won't go on my car.

 

[tenderloin]

http://www.scuderiaciriani.com/rx7/oil_filter_study/

http://minimopar.net/oilfilterstudy.html

http://minimopar.net/oilfilterstudy-german.html

[ May 24, 2003, 03:47 PM: Message edited by: tenderloin ]

 

[Mystic]

turbochem, I can think of two oil filter studies that were done and the results published on the internet.

One study was done by a guy who, if I remember correctly, worked for Mopar. I believe that he was an electrical engineer. He was a talented guy. One of the oil filter makers actually threatened to sue or did sue him. Strangely, I don't think it was FRAM. What he was saying was hitting too close to home.

Another guy who did an oil filter study also was an electrical engineer. Another talented guy. He exaimined bypass valves in FRAM oil filters and was able to make them fail easily.

Pictures do tell a story. FRAM oil filters cut apart (at least the cheaper ones) do not look like fine art. The difference between well built and poorly built oil filters is obvious even in the photographs. A Japanese made oil filter that was cut apart looked like some marvel of engineering. There is an old saying in engineering-if it looks good, it probably is good. Well built machines tend to look good. Something that looks like it was slapped together probably was.

In the studies, the well built oil filters had more filtering material, and valves that actually worked, and metal endcaps. Poorly built oil filters had much less filtering material, and valves that would fail easily, and cardboard endcaps.

 

[turbochem]

quote:

---

He exaimined bypass valves in FRAM oil filters and was able to make them fail easily

---

What was the setup of his experiment, details would be nice?

quote:

---

Do you prefer cardboard endcaps, or metal? Maybe cardboard is just as good, but I prefer metal.

---

Well, if cardboard in this application works just as good as metal (as you say might be the case) then without further data, that becomes a non-issue.

quote:

---

Do you prefer plastic valves, or metal? When you examine the plastic valve, can it be made to fail easily?

---

What do you mean by "examine?" Under what kind of examination would the valve "fail?" Are they the conditions that the valve would actually see in use?

quote:

---

Do you want for your oil filter to come complete with PTFE in it?

---

Fram makes filters without it. Yet another non-issue.

quote:

---

FRAM oil filters cut apart (at least the cheaper ones) do not look like fine art.

---

LOL, that one statement says alot. I'm willing to be I can design a filter that looks beautiful and suck as a filter.

quote:

---

There is an old saying in engineering-if it looks good, it probably is good.

---

LOL, glad I sliped engineering and went strait to chemistry (that was a joke). I could show you experimental set-ups that look great, but perform poorly.

I'm not saying that these so-called "studies" are crap. For example, there was a site that had bus oil filters that actaully had (I'm not joking) peanut shells and soy sauce packets in it!!!

But, in the long run, the Dremel "studies" only show us what the filter looks like. Since I'm going to be actually using a filter (instead of merely looking at it), I would like to know the filtering characteristics under operating conditions....

And if the cardboard is detrimental to performance, let me see the data.......

Hey, I'm not Fram fanatic...I have a supertech on right now.......it's just unsubstantiated claims (that are personal opinions shrouded as fact) irk me a tad bit.......

So, let's keep on testing and questioning!!!

The truth is out there!!

 

[Baveux]

I'm with you Turbochem !!

Maybe Fram sucks, but Hey, they are everywhere, on all kind of cars, it's been like that for the last 25 years, why ? Marketing ? Maybe, but hey you know like me , if they would have cause a lot of failure, the wouldn't be there today, I would not be afraid to use them. In my book, glue stick much better on cardboard than on steel

There is always something better, it's a never ending story