This doesn't make any sense

Jim

Messages
268
Location
Grand Rapids, Michigan
I found this on the web and I don't understand why cold oil would cause more wear. Is it because it is not being splashed up onto the cylinder walls? ....................................... Dr. Terry McFadden teaches a course at UAF called Arctic Engineering. It is a gold mine of tips, solid engineering, common sense and often little-known facts about coping with day-to-day problems encountered in cold climates. "Some experts estimate that the wear on the rings of an internal combustion engine is as high as 0.001" per 1000 miles of operation when the oil temperature is below 170 degrees F. The point is to stress that by far the greatest amount of engine wear takes place before the oil is warmed up. The amount of wear that occurs afterward is insignificant by comparison. It can be appreciated, therefore, that it is important to warm the oil, as well as the engine block. An engine that is kept warm with a circulating heater or with one that is plugged into the block can usually be started easily, but the oil is not heated and it provides very little lubrication at first. Consequently, the most engine wear occurs during the few minutes immediately after starting. [ November 03, 2003, 09:51 PM: Message edited by: Jim ]
 
Messages
3,216
Location
BC, Canada
That is the "wear on rings", not the cylinder liners. The rings are springy, at least the good quality ones are, and the end gap increases over the life of the engine. Cylinder liner wear rates and Detroit Diesel's SAE 40 is always a favorite topic among HD guys.
 
Messages
47,636
Location
Duvall WA - Pacific NW USA
That seems like a LOT of wear per 1000 miles...where did he get the data? Heck I dunno may it does make sense if you, maybe drive 3 cold miles every day, 333 days per year so ten years you'd be missing .010" (not counting warm wear).... Here's the thing: it's flow that he is (rightly) counting on. I don't believe he's saying cold oil itself protects less, it's just not flowing as well to the vital points. Use the W viscosity for your climate and don't sweat it.
 
Messages
4,844
Location
Saskatchewan
quote:
Originally posted by Pablo: I don't believe he's saying cold oil itself protects less, it's just not flowing as well to the vital points. Use the W viscosity for your climate and don't sweat it.
I agree. It can't be that terrible when you're using a proper oil for the temperature or else my car wouldn't be alive after seventeen -40C winters.
 

Patman

Staff member
Messages
21,989
Location
Oakville, Ontario
Since I've now reached super anal status when it comes to worrying about engine wear, not only am I running a 0w30 oil for super fast flow in winter, but I'm now plugging in my block heater every morning too (it's set on a timer actually) I expect to see zero engine wear! (just kidding) [Smile]
 
Messages
3,683
Location
Chattanooga, TN
However, the real question or issue is what difference does it make. I am willing to bet that the body will fall off of both cars before the engine dies if the only difference between the two comparison engines is that one had a oil heater or some kind and the other did not! Never know, will we. [ November 05, 2003, 08:11 AM: Message edited by: Spector ]
 
I think that the best idea would be to use a block heater as well as a pan oil heater. This way everything is near operating conditions when you start up....well, as close as possible anyway. As far as the wear...I had a 79 Blazer with the 305 V-8. Had over 200,000 on it when I got rid of it. At one point it had seen, LITERALLY, 65 degrees below 0 (Farenheit). I had to start it in that temperature WITHOUT a heater. For 5 minutes it ran without oil pressure and then when it finally managed to suck up that "goo" of oil it pegged the gauge for 30 minutes until it warmed enough to actually flow like a fluid instead of a near solid gel-like substance. This engine still lived for quite awhile even considering all of this "wear" on my rings from lack of lube. When that engine finally let go it still had plenty of power so the rings sealed just fine. What went out was a rod...it went right out the side of the block. Ok, I was rambling...sorry. hehe Mikie
 

DH

Messages
10
Location
NJ
I believe that you're looking at two different phenomena. First, wear at cold starts is likely to be due to poor flow. Wear during low temperature operation, that is the oil never reaching a suitable operating temperature, may be due to the fact that the additives never reach their optimum activation temperature.
 
Messages
4,844
Location
Saskatchewan
quote:
Originally posted by Patman: I'm now plugging in my block heater every morning too (it's set on a timer actually) I expect to see zero engine wear! (just kidding) [Smile]
Congratulations on your decision. I can't believe how many people look at me funny when I plug in on a semi-cold morning, then sit there and warm up their car while I'm driving away (slowly of course) with my heater already blowing warm air. All for a few cents worth of electricity.
 

Patman

Staff member
Messages
21,989
Location
Oakville, Ontario
quote:
Originally posted by rpn453:
quote:
Originally posted by Patman: I'm now plugging in my block heater every morning too (it's set on a timer actually) I expect to see zero engine wear! (just kidding) [Smile]
Congratulations on your decision. I can't believe how many people look at me funny when I plug in on a semi-cold morning, then sit there and warm up their car while I'm driving away (slowly of course) with my heater already blowing warm air. All for a few cents worth of electricity.

I easily cut a few miles off the time it takes to fully warm up the engine now, and love the fact that when the engine first fires up, the rpms don't go as high as they do when the engine is stone cold. As a double hit on lowering engine wear, I've now got parking in the underground garage at work, so it's always a nice warm temperature down there (when it's near freezing outside it feels like about 80 degrees down there, as there are lots of big heaters down there, very nice!)
 
Messages
2,480
What's weird is that most Volvo's in Sweden are about 20 years old. Guess it's all that FL-like weather they have...or were they using 0W-20 grades long before the rest of us knew they even existed???
 
Messages
2,095
Location
IL
My oil temp is lucky to hit 170F in the winter, even after 1hr of driving. Car has 183k on it. Compression is good. Runs excellent. Don't know this guys motivation, but sounds like BS to me, especially with modern oils. Oh yeah, and analysis come back good with this great amount of wear occuring [Roll Eyes]
 

Patman

Staff member
Messages
21,989
Location
Oakville, Ontario
quote:
Originally posted by Dr. T: What's weird is that most Volvo's in Sweden are about 20 years old. Guess it's all that FL-like weather they have...or were they using 0W-20 grades long before the rest of us knew they even existed???
I'd be willing to bet that most of them use block heaters though. I truly believe the practice of using a block heater in the cold winter months can extend engine life by a considerable amount (compared to not using it that is)
 
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