And, guess I’m officially an old, get off my lawn guy-I actually miss the keyboard buttons on my old, nearly indestructible work Backberry!
The Return of User Replaceable Batteries in Mobile Devices
- Thread starter SubLGT
- Start date
A big part of the problem is auctioning off parts of the wireless spectrum, like the death of superior OTA TV, analog cellphone spectrum, 2G, & now 3G. My (now ancient) iPhone 4 still works just fine, because it’s been taken care of & in an Otterbox Defender since day 1-but there’s no 2G left to run it on…
Yeah, but this is where free choice rules, not mandates. If the public cared and if it was a selling point the product would exist.
As far as Apple nothing could be further than the truth. Their operating systems are supported for more generations than any of their competition by a wide margin.
But like I said, in a forum like this and others like it, those are the only ones who do care but the vast majority of the public could care less. Your 2nd gen SE would have be long dead if it was another cell phone manufacturer.
Making predictions on the future is fruitless. I want the latest features and your choice it does enough which is fine. I can remember people saying the same thing with personal computers back in the 1990s. "with this hard drive you will never need more storage, this much memory is overkill ... ect ect... those computers wouldnt run anything less than 7 years later and be WAY behind in speed jsut a couple years later.
Todays cell phones have GPS no longer need for a Garmin, the public wants 5g that didnt even exist roughly 3 years or so back.
The list endless. My iPhone coupled with my Apple Watch is a medical device, tracking device, the new iPhone can contact satellites out in space if there is an emergency and you have no cell phone service. This is incredible and didnt exist until iPhone 14. You have an SOS device on your iPhone that doesnt need cell service.
My watch runs ECGs on my heart, Keeps track of my respiration and heart rate while I sleep and sends that information to my phone, if something doesnt seem right it will turn the ECG/EKG into a PDF and I can send this information to my doctor. Soon maybe to come will be blood pressure monitoring and possibly glucose.
I can ride my motorcycle the Iphone GPS transfers the directions to my watch, barely even have to look at the watch screen, it pings my wrist when I need to make a turn.
Just discussing here and why I say a free market works, let the public decide. There use to be this country called the USSR ... but no politics here when almost everything was controlled and even produced by the government including health care. The USSR doesnt exist anymore. (no politics intended)
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2023
- Messages
- 125
But you can have all those same things with a phone that has a replaceable battery... none of that will change, technology will continue forward whether the battery is sealed in the phone or replaceable. I guarantee you they'll still find ways to make amazing devices to sell to the folks who want the latest tech, but people who want to keep their phones longer and don't need cutting edge will will be able to do that as wellYeah, but this is where free choice rules, not mandates. If the public cared and if it was a selling point the product would exist.
As far as Apple nothing could be further than the truth. Their operating systems are supported for more generations than any of their competition by a wide margin.
But like I said, in a forum like this and others like it, those are the only ones who do care but the vast majority of the public could care less. Your 2nd gen SE would have be long dead if it was another cell phone manufacturer.
Making predictions on the future is fruitless. I want the latest features and your choice it does enough which is fine. I can remember people saying the same thing with personal computers back in the 1990s. "with this hard drive you will never need more storage, this much memory is overkill ... ect ect... those computers wouldnt run anything less than 7 years later and be WAY behind in speed jsut a couple years later.
Todays cell phones have GPS no longer need for a Garmin, the public wants 5g that didnt even exist roughly 3 years or so back.
The list endless. My iPhone coupled with my Apple Watch is a medical device, tracking device, the new iPhone can contact satellites out in space if there is an emergency and you have no cell phone service. This is incredible and didnt exist until iPhone 14. You have an SOS device on your iPhone that doesnt need cell service.
My watch runs ECGs on my heart, Keeps track of my respiration and heart rate while I sleep and sends that information to my phone, if something doesnt seem right it will turn the ECG/EKG into a PDF and I can send this information to my doctor. Soon maybe to come will be blood pressure monitoring and possibly glucose.
I can ride my motorcycle the Iphone GPS transfers the directions to my watch, barely even have to look at the watch screen, it pings my wrist when I need to make a turn.
Just discussing here and why I say a free market works, let the public decide. There use to be this country called the USSR ... but no politics here when almost everything was controlled and even produced by the government including health care. The USSR doesnt exist anymore. (no politics intended)
Wow - quite the thread.
There is good government regulation and not good. Right to repair was good legislation - its the reason you actually have access to independent auto repair shops and factory service manuals online for a small fee. The fact that even most BITOG members don't grasp that this is an example of good government control / consumer protection astounds me.
Sure, if I can drive any old thing I import, then I don't care, but then people would be unhappy with the number of jilopies on the road.
The ones fighting right to repair not surprisingly are the likes of Ford, Tesla, apple and Microsoft. They don't want you to own anything, they only want to lease it to you - be it your car or your cell phone. They want to tell you when its obsolete and you need to sign up for a new one. Its truly the "you will own nothing and like it" mantra, but people immediately say government shouldn't regulate anything.
Enjoy your non right to repair future.
There is good government regulation and not good. Right to repair was good legislation - its the reason you actually have access to independent auto repair shops and factory service manuals online for a small fee. The fact that even most BITOG members don't grasp that this is an example of good government control / consumer protection astounds me.
Sure, if I can drive any old thing I import, then I don't care, but then people would be unhappy with the number of jilopies on the road.
The ones fighting right to repair not surprisingly are the likes of Ford, Tesla, apple and Microsoft. They don't want you to own anything, they only want to lease it to you - be it your car or your cell phone. They want to tell you when its obsolete and you need to sign up for a new one. Its truly the "you will own nothing and like it" mantra, but people immediately say government shouldn't regulate anything.
Enjoy your non right to repair future.
Not required by federal laws maybe.
Every state I have ever looked at the residential electrical code follows NEC or NFPA standards, which require most things to be approved by a Nationally Recognized Testing Laboratory - NRTL. UL is the largest NRTL. So they don't say UL - they say approved NRTL - which is the same thing - there all private. I don't think the alternates play in the residential world but I could be mistaken. Its different in the industrial world where there are many NRTL's.
I think there are some newer standards where the NRC will also accept some European standards as well - but don't quote me on that.
So it is law in most places, if you want to connect to the grid.
Of course check your own local standards. Perhaps there is someplace that doesn't follow NEC.
Its the same for right to repair. The whole right to repair thing started with a Massachusetts state law, which most other states copied. There is not federal right to repair law.
Last edited:
By the way, big corporations, big, powerful corporations, initially oppose legislation governing their products.
With that said, such as apple supporting right to repair, would mean they now have the infrastructure in place to make their products and parts available to the public.
Sooner or later, this will go also with replaceable batteries.
Big corporations can deal with regulations like these, but overreach by governments will actually make your products more expensive because it’s going to put companies that cannot keep up with the pace of regulations that will reduce the amount of competition, because smaller companies will go out of business or get out of the cell phone business.
Many people don’t realize legislation puts the little guy out of Business, small businesses across this country close up shop because they can’t keep up with regulations and standards imposed on them.
So don’t think for a minute any giant corporation is fully against regulations, because if they’re in the top tier, they know their competition will not be able to keep up.
It’s just common sense do a little research. Listen to any small business owner about what it’s like to try to stay in business in today’s regulated environment.
Free markets, work, and armchair politician has no idea, except what sounds good to the public at large and he won’t be around when it proves not to be true
With that said, such as apple supporting right to repair, would mean they now have the infrastructure in place to make their products and parts available to the public.
Sooner or later, this will go also with replaceable batteries.
Big corporations can deal with regulations like these, but overreach by governments will actually make your products more expensive because it’s going to put companies that cannot keep up with the pace of regulations that will reduce the amount of competition, because smaller companies will go out of business or get out of the cell phone business.
Many people don’t realize legislation puts the little guy out of Business, small businesses across this country close up shop because they can’t keep up with regulations and standards imposed on them.
So don’t think for a minute any giant corporation is fully against regulations, because if they’re in the top tier, they know their competition will not be able to keep up.
It’s just common sense do a little research. Listen to any small business owner about what it’s like to try to stay in business in today’s regulated environment.
Free markets, work, and armchair politician has no idea, except what sounds good to the public at large and he won’t be around when it proves not to be true
And like I said it's about time
I cannot WAIT for replaceable batteries again
And with that you will give up certain things like waterproofing that made the iPhone ideal for a lot of people.
Heading out of a building with the rain coming down in torrents and your iPhone in your pocket. At that point you appreciate the waterproof capability of the product.
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2023
- Messages
- 125
Let me copy and paste my response in post #39 earlier in this thread that you must have missed that answers your question
here it is ----------------------------------
I have a very old Garmin GPS from back when we were still using old style Flip phones, before sealed smartphones were even a wet dream. It takes 4 AA batteries, and it was designed and sold to be completely waterproof... and it was, I accidentally "tested" it lol. It was shown floating in a river on the package if I remember correctly.. which was exactly how I tested it
It has a plastic back with a rubber gasket and an o ring around the clip style locking pin that holds the back on. It was a handheld unit that was about the dimensions of a modern smartphone except thicker because of the AA batteries. With modern lithium batteries that would no longer be a problem.
So Kris is right, if they were able to do that in the late 90's, I think they can make a waterproof smartphone with a replaceable battery in 2027
It's whether they really want to or not. And of course they don't, they don't want us keeping our phones for years and years, it's much more profitable to have us buy a new phone every 2 to 3 years when the battery wears out, rather than just buying another battery
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2023
- Messages
- 125
That horse left the barn decades ago, when they let China copy and build whatever they want and ship it to us, with no regulation at all - while US businesses were regulated to death.
Now we get to eat whatever crap these big corps wish to feed us, with no regulation as well.
Let me copy and paste my response in post #39 earlier in this thread that you must have missed that answers your question
---------------------------------
I have a very old Garmin GPS from back when we were still using old style Flip phones, before sealed smartphones were even a wet dream. It takes 4 AA batteries, and it was designed and sold to be completely waterproof... and it was, I accidentally "tested" it lol. It was shown floating in a river on the package if I remember correctly.. which was exactly how I tested it
It has a plastic back with a rubber gasket and an o ring around the clip style locking pin that holds the back on. It was a handheld unit that was about the dimensions of a modern smartphone except thicker because of the AA batteries. With modern lithium batteries that would no longer be a problem.
So Kris is right, if they were able to do that in the late 90's, I think they can make a waterproof smartphone with a replaceable battery in 2027
It's whether they really want to or not. And of course they don't, they don't want us keeping our phones for years and years, it's much more profitable to have us buy a new phone every 2 to 3 years when the battery wears out, rather than just buying another battery
And that was a phone and not a mobile computer device.
But you can have all those same things with a phone that has a replaceable battery... none of that will change, technology will continue forward whether the battery is sealed in the phone or replaceable. I guarantee you they'll still find ways to make amazing devices to sell to the folks who want the latest tech, but people who want to keep their phones longer and don't need cutting edge will will be able to do that as well
Sure, but it's based on size - at least with the smallest devices. It either has to be bigger, the battery smaller, or something gets left out.
I've owned a variety of Apple laptop computers. The early ones all had a battery that more or less attached to the bottom and where Apple sold retail replacements. There were some wrinkles like service replacement batteries, but for the most part they made it easy where the only tool needed to replace the battery was a coin to turn the lock.
I still use (using it right now) a Unibody MacBook Pro. It's not trivial to access the internals, but it's easy. Apple even approved of user replacement for the RAM and the drive. But the battery was considered by them to be serviced only by Apple or their service reps. But having seen what's in there, it would ridiculously easy to replace it. The only oddball tool needed is a tri-wing screwdriver, and many aftermarket battery replacement kits come with one.
Maybe but keep in kind your Garmin was thicker than 3/16 to 1/4 inch and not waterproof 18 feetLet me copy and paste my response in post #39 earlier in this thread that you must have missed that answers your question
---------------------------------
I have a very old Garmin GPS from back when we were still using old style Flip phones, before sealed smartphones were even a wet dream. It takes 4 AA batteries, and it was designed and sold to be completely waterproof... and it was, I accidentally "tested" it lol. It was shown floating in a river on the package if I remember correctly.. which was exactly how I tested it
It has a plastic back with a rubber gasket and an o ring around the clip style locking pin that holds the back on. It was a handheld unit that was about the dimensions of a modern smartphone except thicker because of the AA batteries. With modern lithium batteries that would no longer be a problem.
So Kris is right, if they were able to do that in the late 90's, I think they can make a waterproof smartphone with a replaceable battery in 2027
It's whether they really want to or not. And of course they don't, they don't want us keeping our phones for years and years, it's much more profitable to have us buy a new phone every 2 to 3 years when the battery wears out, rather than just buying another battery
I looked at the original post and the attached message from the European Council. It may not require the ability to use aftermarket battery replacements, but will require user replaceability. Apple is already doing this in several markets with their self-service repair program. There may be a marginal cost savings with respect to having Apple or an authorized service rep do the service, especially if the original battery is returned for credit. It's not easy though and they won't fix anything that's damaged by user error during the replacement. To me, I'll have it done officially unless they refuse to do it because of other damage.
The other important thing is the nanny warnings when an aftermarket battery is used. That can be really annoying, but otherwise doesn't affect functionality. With official self-repair from Apple, the user can call a customer support center and have it remotely reset. Even an OEM salvage battery that's been reused will give that warning since each battery has a serial number and is supposed to be registered for that device.
Not sure what the EU regulations will say about something like that.
The other important thing is the nanny warnings when an aftermarket battery is used. That can be really annoying, but otherwise doesn't affect functionality. With official self-repair from Apple, the user can call a customer support center and have it remotely reset. Even an OEM salvage battery that's been reused will give that warning since each battery has a serial number and is supposed to be registered for that device.
Not sure what the EU regulations will say about something like that.
They don’t charge much to change battery which tend to last. The issue I see with this law is phones won’t be water proof enough to drop in water.
I would never rely on that. I've participated on an Apple forum where there have been tons of people complaining that they dropped their devices in water or even deliberately took photos underwater, then complained that they no longer worked or even just something like an earpiece sounding muffled. All the major manufacturers have warranty terms that disavow liquid damage, even when they claim a IP67/68 standard. Samsung got sued, especially when they had ads (in different parts of the world) showing a phone dropped in wet grass or in dishwater.
There are sensors that show water ingress into the iPhone.
Maybe in a perfect world a iPhone gets dropped into water and survives. But if that iPhone had been dropped several times beforehand or otherwise treated poorly then that changes things.
As for aftermarket stuff, there have been numerous cases where aftermarket chargers as an example had caused fires. A lot of variables in play here.
I have known people with problems too however they bought used phones which may have been opened / compromised .
Similar threads
- Locked
