The Prius need for speed

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Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
I'm pretty certain almost ANY driver would do better in the Corolla on a 1000-mile all highway trip than they would in the Prius.


Only you you compare corolla doing 60 MPH vs Prius doing 80 MPH.

Prius has the same engine hardware as corolla plus atkinson cycle that makes it more fuel efficient (under 220g/Kwh, near diesel range). Throw in continuously variable tranny that has infinite number of gears and lower aerodynamic drag.

Lets get real here for a change.
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
IMHO, this and similar threads started by Prius haters here on BITOG are ridiculous and amount to stereotyping (the previous one was about how slow Prius drivers are though).

I never started a thread about how slow big trucks and SUV go now in my parts (I guess they try to save on fuel) and I don't recall other threads started about stereotyping one class of drivers vs another.

IMHO, this is not what BITOG should be about.


I think there are some driving characteristics that are more common with drivers of certain cars, but I actually notice that less with the Prius. It's a common car with a lot of different people driving them. In fact, as a group Prius drivers where I live do not really stand out in any way from any other group of drivers. There's the occasional idiot, but idiots drive everything.

If there is one type of car that's an all around menace here, it is the Nissan Altima. I do not know the reasons for this phenomenon, but for some reason a large number of Altima owners in this area are crazy drivers. 20-30 MPH over the speed limit, erratic lane changes, no signals, and very aggressive driving are to be expected in an Altima encounter. I have not seen this pattern in other cities, but it is prevalent enough here that my friends have noticed it too. I know a couple of Altima owners and that pretty much is their driving style. I have no explanation. It's not stereotyping so much as something I've learned to watch out for.
 
I've got my stereotypes that I firmly believe in:

Acura - slow driver, not looking where they're going
Buick except Rendezvous - slow driver
Buick Rendezvous - driver's only joy in life is causing misery for other people
BMW - fast driver
Corvette - slow driver
Dodge - driver tends to drive either very fast or very slow
Ferrari - very slow driver but tends to time lights fairly well
Hyundai - car has at least one nearly flat tire
Hyundai Santa Fe - driver is talking
Mercedes Benz - driver does not use turn signals
Nissan Altima - car does not have functional windshield wipers
Purple car - car has lots of dents
Volvo - driver has no clue how to drive

The Prius tends to blend.
 
The majority of Priuses I come across are driven moronically. 5-10 under the limit in the fast lane, not paying attention, not understanding "cross-traffic does not stop", etc. It's infuriating.
 
I was in the back of a Prius once. Maybe a new model.. I have no idea. It was VERY roomy in the back.

Outside temperature was 108 degrees, so whatever 0W-20 motor oil was in there was going well. GREAT power, from what I felt. A smooth rider.

Dare I say it.. I will seriously consider one for a transportation mode. Gas is $3.73 across the street. It is.
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
I'm pretty certain almost ANY driver would do better in the Corolla on a 1000-mile all highway trip than they would in the Prius.


Only you you compare corolla doing 60 MPH vs Prius doing 80 MPH.

Prius has the same engine hardware as corolla plus atkinson cycle that makes it more fuel efficient (under 220g/Kwh, near diesel range). Throw in continuously variable tranny that has infinite number of gears and lower aerodynamic drag.

Lets get real here for a change.


I am being real, and I never compared a Prepuce going 80 to a Corolla going 60.

Hybrids lose their advantage during highway cruising because they become fully dependent on the gasoline engine, and incur all the dead weight of batteries that are sitting there fully charged, but otherwise doing nothing. Even the EPA ratings tend to reflect this, but real-world (albeit somewhat anecdotal) evidence tends to back it up to an even greater degree. If you have a highway commute, get a small, aerodynamic, manual-transmission compact car (not something with the aerodyamics of a brick like a Smart Fortwo, though). If you have a city commute or a mix of the two, get a hybrid.
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
How about drivers driving with hats on?

I was told that it has a special meaning.


It means they're either State Troopers, cowboys, or have a liking for Fedoras or Homburgs.

Lots of people drive wearing caps (either with the bill backward, sideways, or normal) but not many people drive wearing hats anymore.
 
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Yeah I see them flying all the time.

I was following one in my friends diesel Mercedes at about 85 once and I said to him, you know this car is probably getting better mileage than that Prius at 85....


Prius will do circa 40 MPG at that speed. How about your diesel?


41-42.

Compare it to the energy costs that big old battery consumes during production and generation of the juice and the diesel is way ahead.

Run the diesel on bio fuel and were not even in the same ballpark.

Plus an E320CDI can do something a Prius cannot at that speed...accelerate.

They can't sell hybrids in Europe because the diesels are to good. But they have reasonable emissions standards and don't have cat [censored] for diesel fuel like we do in this country. I actually saw "premium" diesel the other day with a 45 cetane ratting, seriously? That's cat pee.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
Lots of people drive wearing caps (either with the bill backward, sideways, or normal) but not many people drive wearing hats anymore.

I wear a cap when I am in the S2000 with top down on highway, the wind is very strong even with side windows up.
 
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Yeah I see them flying all the time.

I was following one in my friends diesel Mercedes at about 85 once and I said to him, you know this car is probably getting better mileage than that Prius at 85....


Prius will do circa 40 MPG at that speed. How about your diesel?


41-42.

Compare it to the energy costs that big old battery consumes during production and generation of the juice and the diesel is way ahead.

Run the diesel on bio fuel and were not even in the same ballpark.

Plus an E320CDI can do something a Prius cannot at that speed...accelerate.

They can't sell hybrids in Europe because the diesels are to good. But they have reasonable emissions standards and don't have cat [censored] for diesel fuel like we do in this country. I actually saw "premium" diesel the other day with a 45 cetane ratting, seriously? That's cat pee.


X2. Our regulations have made diesel unreasonable here except for the enthusiasts. Nobody wants to fool with it anymore. Too expensive, too much maintenance, too many issues.

I think wider use of diesels in the US would be good, but until then hybrids are as good as it gets for some commutes. My dad has a hybrid Civic that has had no trouble getting 50 MPG on the interstate since new, but unfortunately it's an unreliable transmission eating POS. If it were reliable it would be a great car.
 
Originally Posted By: 440Magnum

Hybrids lose their advantage during highway cruising because they become fully dependent on the gasoline engine, and incur all the dead weight of batteries that are sitting there fully charged, but otherwise doing nothing.


First corolla engine takes 250 g/kWh while Prius takes 220 g/kWh, so how exactly Prius loses on highway?

Now, Prius battery weights what, 90 lbs? While that could give some minimal MPG panalty in city, that has next to nothing bearing on hwy.

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum

Even the EPA ratings tend to reflect this, but real-world (albeit somewhat anecdotal) evidence tends to back it up to an even greater degree.


How EPA rating reflects that? Corolla is rated 34 hwy and Prius is rated 48 MPH on hwy. How exactly are you going to get better MPG in Corolla?

What real world? Fuelly? Prius: 49.3 and Corolla: 31.9 MPG.

http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/prius
http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/corolla

Originally Posted By: 440Magnum

If you have a highway commute, get a small, aerodynamic,


drag coefficient: Prius 0.25, Corolla 0.30, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_drag_coefficient

So, please explain one more time how corolla is going to get better MPG on hwy as what so said so far is very far from truth to say the least.
 
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek
Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Yeah I see them flying all the time.

I was following one in my friends diesel Mercedes at about 85 once and I said to him, you know this car is probably getting better mileage than that Prius at 85....


Prius will do circa 40 MPG at that speed. How about your diesel?


41-42.

Compare it to the energy costs that big old battery consumes during production and generation of the juice and the diesel is way ahead.

Run the diesel on bio fuel and were not even in the same ballpark.

Plus an E320CDI can do something a Prius cannot at that speed...accelerate.

They can't sell hybrids in Europe because the diesels are to good. But they have reasonable emissions standards and don't have cat [censored] for diesel fuel like we do in this country. I actually saw "premium" diesel the other day with a 45 cetane ratting, seriously? That's cat pee.


41-42 MPG in E320 CDI???
Clearly in your dreams only. I don't think you own or drive one. Here is why:

Quote:
2006 MERCEDES-BENZ - E320 CDI
City MPG: 23 Highway MPG: 34 Combined MPG: 28


http://mpgfacts.com/?did=386&year=2006

Yes, the merc will accelerate all right, 0-60 in 6.6s vs 3 seconds longer in prius.
 
The main issue with diesels such as a TDI seem to be that though you can get about 25% mileage, the diesel fuel itself costs.. about 25% more.
21.gif


And whats this bad talk about the Smart? What are the MPG figures for it?

I would consider a Prius, Civic Hybrid in 06, or a 2010 or 2011 Mercury Milan Hybrid. They have space, whereas a Smart does not. Even a Volkswagen Golf TDI.

I also agree that a Prius on the highway may be getting very good MPG. Although, at 70 or 75 basically maxing out around 80.. streamlined, small engine. May be the best there.. ROOMY car!
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
With a diesel you don't have a battery pack that's toast in 10 years or less...


As soon as the subject of the Prius comes up, people are suddenly keeping their cars for 500K miles and 30 years...

Do you really think the overall maintenance cost is going to be less over the life of the vehicle with a diesel, battery included? I don't. I know the battery pack is the hybrid boogeyman that gets trotted out, but I don't see it. If your Prius battery is dead in 10 years in my state, you'll get a new one for free--so that's not really a concern.

The battery replacement cost is almost always viewed in isolation of the other (expensive) repairs that other comparative models will have over their lifespan. With that battery pack comes a much more robust and less complicated transmission, no high-pressure fuel systems or the general expense of owning the models currently available in diesel. Maybe the CX-5 diesel will change that paradigm when it becomes available. For now though, I look at the Jetta Wagon TDI and the Prius V (2 cars I'd consider), and in terms of cost of ownership I'd go w/the Prius hands-down. Yeah, I'd rather drive the TDI, no question--but I'm not traveling down the VW road again.
 
Originally Posted By: dparm
With a diesel you don't have a battery pack that's toast in 10 years or less...


with a diesel you will be repairing turbo, pump and injectors in 10 years and that will be several times the cost of the prius battery ($2000). I suspect timing belts alone will cost you more than battery that surprisingly doesn't brake if you bothered to check.
 
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