The new Indians revealed last night

[Robenstein]

Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: grampi
I just can't get into the whole retro styled, hugely overpriced bike scene...maybe that's why Indian keeps going under?

Harley sells every $35,000 bike they make. I doubt that's the reason.


But they also sell a ton of cheaper Sportsters, Dynas, and Softails which helps them keep making money. You can get a $9,000 Harley but you cannot get a $9,000 Indian. If they are smart they should have an entry level middleweight bike around 10 to 12k. Get people hooked on the brand so that they "trade up" later on to a more expensive model.

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Originally Posted By: whip
Originally Posted By: grampi
I just can't get into the whole retro styled, hugely overpriced bike scene...maybe that's why Indian keeps going under?

Harley sells every $35,000 bike they make. I doubt that's the reason.


But they also sell a ton of cheaper Sportsters, Dynas, and Softails which helps them keep making money. You can get a $9,000 Harley but you cannot get a $9,000 Indian. If they are smart they should have an entry level middleweight bike around 10 to 12k. Get people hooked on the brand so that they "trade up" later on to a more expensive model.

Right now, the entry level bikes are called Polaris. I'm sure they will have less expensive models eventually.

 

[olskoolblu]

If you mean the Victorys, I sure don't recall anything entry level about their pricing. I looked at them a couple years ago when I was in the market for a new bike and I remember thinking they were priced about the same as a comparable Harley. The previous Indians were just to expensive for the average buyer. This new retro look with the lower price was a brilliant move.

 

[Robenstein]

Indeed the Victory brand is intended to be the "entry line" but most as about as much as a new HD Dyna. However, if they were going to play their cards right they would have both Victory and Indian bikes at every dealership. They do not appear to be doing that. Also many people might like the different engine/branding of Indian and a lower priced bike would significantly help sales I would think.

 

[Mik]

Victory was never intended to be an entry-level brand (it was intended to go toe-to-toe with Harley but never quite took off as expected), though Polaris' purchase of the Indian name may very well relinquish it to such a role over time..... I am not a cruiser guy but rode every model in their 2008 and 2009 fleets and can say that they are well executed motorcycles put together by a bunch of competent and passionnate engineers, many of whom I had the pleasure of meeting and conversing with at length.....

 

[fxrider]

don't like the funky handlebars

 

[rrounds]

The Chief Classic is a naked bike and at 19k one very expensive naked bike.
http://www.indianmotorcycle.com/en-us/chief-classic-motorcycle

ROD

 

[RonH]

$19,000 seems right in line with Harley prices for a similar model. I'm definately not a Harley fan though so could be wrong.
Weren't the last Indians sold around $35,000?
One thing that may put a damper on the dealer network is something I read today, and that is if a dealer chooses to sell Indian, they insist on the Indian being the only brand sold in a building, so no Victory and Indians being sold by the same dealer in the same building. Indian will stand alone on the sales floor. I read it so it must be true. Well who knows? The cruiser is not my cup of tea, but I hope they do well.

 

[sunruh]

sounds like the honda (wanna be) sales pitch.

honda gives a stealership a discount if they are honda only.
by that no other brands in the building.

we had one of those (honda only). it took 2 years for it to fold under.
the kawaski only building next door only took 1 year to fold.

both were then sold to a yamaha/suzuki/polaris/canam shop that then added kawa,honda and ktm. (later dropped ktm because of no sales).

this indian only or victory only idiot setup will only hurt both.
they are not the same and wont sell to the same anyway.
idiot sales because of idiot marketing droids.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Mik
Victory was never intended to be an entry-level brand (it was intended to go toe-to-toe with Harley but never quite took off as expected), though Polaris' purchase of the Indian name may very well relinquish it to such a role over time..... I am not a cruiser guy but rode every model in their 2008 and 2009 fleets and can say that they are well executed motorcycles put together by a bunch of competent and passionnate engineers, many of whom I had the pleasure of meeting and conversing with at length.....


Victorys are built better than Harleys...they addressed all of Harleys shortcomings and designed them to be better machines...they just don't have the following Harley has and probably never will...it's tough (if not impossible) to overcome the legend and mistique that comes with a Harley, even with a better product...

 

[Mik]

Yep, hog-o-philes are brainwashed to feel special astride their bikes (all about image, 'cause it sure ain't technology or performance, in the broader sense of the word))...... it will be fun to see how Milwaukee Inc tries to downplay Indian, a brand that is older than Hardley and just as Americana-esque (not to mention better engineered and functionally superior; just as Victory is BTW).....

 

[Robenstein]

There are modern Harleys, they call them the VRSC. Sure the Evo and Twin Cams are traditionally engineered, but the VRSC Revolution motor is well designed and puts out a good amount of power for its displacement in the cruiser class of bikes.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
There are modern Harleys, they call them the VRSC. Sure the Evo and Twin Cams are traditionally engineered, but the VRSC Revolution motor is well designed and puts out a good amount of power for its displacement in the cruiser class of bikes.


Compared to what? I have yet to see any Harley that's comparable in design or performance compared to other makes in their class...Victorys are better designed and more powerful, and the metrics are light years ahead of Harley in terms of design and performance...

 

[Robenstein]

Well the VRSC is overhead cam, water cooled, and unit construction. The V rod has 122 horsepower and 86lbs of torque from their 76 cubic inch motor.

The Victory on the other hand 97 horsepower and 113 pounds of torque. So it has 25 less horsepower but 27 more pounds of torque. It is comparable, but it should be since it has 30 cubic inches on the Harley.

I am no Harley fan, but the revolution motor puts out decent numbers for its size. If it were of similar displacement to the Victory, it would be a real powerhouse, but for just 1,2500cc's it does well. It is no V Max or B King in power, but for a v twin cruiser, it does fine.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Robenstein
Well the VRSC is overhead cam, water cooled, and unit construction. The V rod has 122 horsepower and 86lbs of torque from their 76 cubic inch motor.

The Victory on the other hand 97 horsepower and 113 pounds of torque. So it has 25 less horsepower but 27 more pounds of torque. It is comparable, but it should be since it has 30 cubic inches on the Harley.

I am no Harley fan, but the revolution motor puts out decent numbers for its size. If it were of similar displacement to the Victory, it would be a real powerhouse, but for just 1,2500cc's it does well. It is no V Max or B King in power, but for a v twin cruiser, it does fine.

Now you're comparing apples to oranges. An apples to apples comparison would be to compare big cubic inch, non-high revving models...the vrod is a high revver and is in no way comparable to the big engined bikes...sure a 600 crotchrocket makes more power for it's size than do these big engines, but it also is a poor comparison....a good comparison would be the Victory 106 and the 110 Screamin Eagle....the 106 is 4 cubes smaller, but it produces more HP and torque than the 110, and it's a much better design...

 

[Maximus1966]

Originally Posted By: grampi

Victorys are built better than Harleys...they addressed all of Harleys shortcomings and designed them to be better machines...they just don't have the following Harley has and probably never will...it's tough (if not impossible) to overcome the legend and mistique that comes with a Harley, even with a better product...


"better" is often in the eye of the beholder, never more evident than in the above dogma. Harley-haters seem so irrational. A product which is clearly superior and priced right would have made much more of a dent in HD sales. I'm just glad there is still so much choice in the marketplace. Victory is being bankrolled by the off-the-chart Polaris UTV sales and it will be the same for Indian, but I sure hope they make it.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: Maximus1966
Originally Posted By: grampi

Victorys are built better than Harleys...they addressed all of Harleys shortcomings and designed them to be better machines...they just don't have the following Harley has and probably never will...it's tough (if not impossible) to overcome the legend and mistique that comes with a Harley, even with a better product...


"better" is often in the eye of the beholder, never more evident than in the above dogma. Harley-haters seem so irrational. A product which is clearly superior and priced right would have made much more of a dent in HD sales. I'm just glad there is still so much choice in the marketplace. Victory is being bankrolled by the off-the-chart Polaris UTV sales and it will be the same for Indian, but I sure hope they make it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGkFPUeNUqc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KueK_pyJHJE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9Ld-IK-uNg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUKKbuibqhs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_OK-D5zW3M

 

[SteveSRT8]

Harley is NOT selling performance.

They sell a 'feeling", a 'mystique', that sort of thing. It's supposed to be a lifestyle, it is most definitely not about the hardware.

The other marques will have a tough time fighting the established brand due to the intangibles. Even if they are better...

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Harley is NOT selling performance.

They sell a 'feeling", a 'mystique', that sort of thing. It's supposed to be a lifestyle, it is most definitely not about the hardware.

The other marques will have a tough time fighting the established brand due to the intangibles. Even if they are better...


All they're selling is a name...

 

[Maximus1966]

Originally Posted By: grampi
[/quote]
All they're selling is a name...


Far from the truth! I'm lucky enough to have owned most of the motorcycle brands and still have four different ones in the garage. All have endearing and not so endearing qualities, but the Road King provides both the tangible and intangible that lots of buyers prefer...and does it with style, reliability and amazing resale value. The name on the tank really has little or nothing to do with the enjoyment derived.

I generally hate clichés, but I have found it to be true that with the uninformed and narrow-minded, ..."If I have to explain it to you, you wouldn't understand."