The love/hate relationship with German cars

Carmudgeon

Carmudgeon

Joined
Apr 26, 2005
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Under the hood
Fresh reminder of the "hate" part of that recently.

Replacing the puddle light bulbs should be no more than a five minute job, right?

Not when the light fixture detaches itself from the harness connector in the course of removing it from the door panel because there is absolutely no slack in the wiring, and prior knowledge and due care didn't prevent that from happening. My nanobot fleet was down, so they couldn't help me reattach the connector internally with the fixture set back in place.

So thar makes it a half-hour job detaching the door panel to reach it from behind, except that then turns into a hour job, because one of the screws holding the door panel is buried deep inside a hole and requires a longer screwdriver I don't have in the arsenal, so a trip to the store is required.

A pox on the engineer, or accountant who specced the wiring an inch short, which could have made all the difference.

Apparently, not an uncommon occurrence for the marque, but is that really 'Vorsprung Durch Technik'?
 
This has little to do with what you've experienced and I do love German vehicles from 100 yards away however I've never owned one. So, I don't have a love/hate relationship with them, I have a Love/Won't Buy" relationship with them.

They're too expensive for my budget on many fronts from the purchase price to the low resale value to the repairs etc. Yeah they're cheap to buy on the preowned market but there is a reason for that according to Mark, Canadian YouTuber of "ExoticCar PlayPlace".


I've been reading CR Mag since the 1970s. Not that I believe that CR is gospel, just a guideline for product searching and a good starting place when buying...anything!

In the 1980s e.g., MB(Audi, BMW as well) was considered the pinnacle of the automotive world on many fronts. Even if not the most reliable, they were reliable just the same. Then came ACURA, INFINITY & LEXUS.

*Later on still, Oh IDK, the early 2000s? CR mentioned that German vehicle were nearing the bottom of their reliability scores. However, CR also stated that(not a quote but close), if we only had to get in, start the engine and drive, German vehicles would be their first choice.

There is also a saying that I've heard, either from this forum or in my circle of friends that, German build quality means..."if it takes 4 screws to hold something, the German's will use 10".
 
Carmudgeon said:
Apparently, not an uncommon occurrence for the marque, but is that really 'Vorsprung Durch Technik'?
Click to expand...

That was Audi's slogan, not BMWs. You must know your product if you're going to understand the ideology behind the design. Maybe you were searching for Freude am Fahren... or possibly Fahrvergnügen? Either way, when you buy a BMW you're buying "Sheer driving pleasure", not "Sheer maintaining pleasure". :) (this is all meant as humor)
 
I love German cars. Back in my teens, me & my Dad maintained a '72 VW Beetle which was a very dependable car. Got my first job, I bought a '75 VW Rabbit another dependable car. Traded that to an '85 BMW 318i which in turn was a very problematic car. Don't want to sell and pass my misery to a buyer but instead I donated it to PBS station here in Houston. I will still would like to buy a BMW, maybe a VW or an Audi or a Benz someday. But for now, I'm happy with my vehicles I currently owned
 
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Carmudgeon said:
Fresh reminder of the "hate" part of that recently.

Replacing the puddle light bulbs should be no more than a five minute job, right?

Not when the light fixture detaches itself from the harness connector in the course of removing it from the door panel because there is absolutely no slack in the wiring, and prior knowledge and due care didn't prevent that from happening. My nanobot fleet was down, so they couldn't help me reattach the connector internally with the fixture set back in place.

So thar makes it a half-hour job detaching the door panel to reach it from behind, except that then turns into a hour job, because one of the screws holding the door panel is buried deep inside a hole and requires a longer screwdriver I don't have in the arsenal, so a trip to the store is required.

A pox on the engineer, or accountant who specced the wiring an inch short, which could have made all the difference.

Apparently, not an uncommon occurrence for the marque, but is that really 'Vorsprung Durch Technik'?
Click to expand...
German Cars are NOT for the DIY! :eek::cool:
 
I've known several "normal" folks who've owned German cars (Porsche, Audi, VW and MB). All bought new. And to the person not one of them bought a second one after the first experience. Whereas they had excellent experiences at the beginning of ownership, the reality of parts costs, parts availability and service costs became too distasteful to continue those relationships. Each went back to other performance/luxury brands after having the German cars.

I'm in the market for my first luxury car ever. And I can assure you it won't be a a German car. I don't need to get burned to learn a lesson; I can see other people's scars and figure it out for myself.
 
Have owned three different brands of German cars, and drove another extensively. Owned a BMW, Porsche, and VW, and drove a German market Ford while stationed there when active duty. Of those I would not hesitate to own another Porsche or BMW given available funds. Both beautifully made vehicles which were a blast to drive. On them, doing basic maintenance wasn't an issue for me. I would violently refuse even a gift of another VW, and by extension an Audi for reasons that are too extensive to list here.
 
Pelican said:
German Cars are NOT for the DIY! :eek::cool:
Click to expand...
I find access for maintenance and some work beyond that to be very good, with some obvious thought given to it in their design. The Boxster is a great example with its hatches and location of service components. The German makes also tend to use high quality fasteners, etc. making work over the lifetime of the cars that much easier.
 
Pelican said:
German Cars are NOT for the DIY! :eek::cool:
Click to expand...
Depends on the DIYer. I have two active suspension Mercedes with twin turbo V-12s. Both features are known for requiring expensive repair, but diagnostics and labor are big parts of that expense. Done myself, the cars are both reliable and fun to own. Just took the roadster (SL600) on a week long trip from Virginia down through Charleston, Savannah, and Florida. Wonderful car on the road

You need an extensive set of metric and torx tools, of course, but the critical tool - knowledge of factory procedures.

Found here: Mercedes own software and diagnostic system running on a dedicated laptop. Steps, sequence, materials, torque values, with hyperlinked supporting procedures, and pictures. Full diagnostic suite that talks with every module on the car.

Now, the shop coffee is not specifically required, but I sure do like the Keurig I keep in the shop. It’s also an essential tool for me…
 

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dnewton3 said:
I've known several "normal" folks who've owned German cars (Porsche, Audi, VW and MB). All bought new. And to the person not one of them bought a second one after the first experience. Whereas they had excellent experiences at the beginning of ownership, the reality of parts costs, parts availability and service costs became too distasteful to continue those relationships. Each went back to other performance/luxury brands after having the German cars.

I'm in the market for my first luxury car ever. And I can assure you it won't be a a German car. I don't need to get burned to learn a lesson; I can see other people's scars and figure it out for myself.
Click to expand...

I'm with ya but I admit a serious struggle as I am enamored with 2020-2022 X5 M50i. I just can't do it.
 
BISCUT said:
I'm with ya but I admit a serious struggle as I am enamored with 2020-2022 X5 M50i. I just can't do it.
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Lease it. I’m serious. That’s my advice to people who admire either of my German cars, and they are admirable. The S600, despite being 17 years old, will flat out-run nearly every performance car on the road, while offering a smooth quiet ride for four people and handling that many sports cars cannot match. A V-12, with twin turbos, big brakes, active suspension, and wonderful luxury features. It has to be owned to be believed.

But ownership can be very expensive if something breaks. So…

Let the manufacturer absorb the financial risk of ownership. Lease it. Enjoy it. Know your costs up front.

Give it back.
 
This thread is painful. I want to love all cars. But at heart I am a fiscal conservative. That's my bottom line. It appears owning the legendary German cars is for the fiscally irresponsible. Again, I hate saying this but I've heard this story too many times.
 
I've owned exactly one German car; a 2016 BMW 550i X-Drive with the M Sport package. It had a twin scroll turbocharged V-8 with 445 hp and the excellent 8HP70 transmission. I owned it for three years and put 60K miles on it. The performance was fantastic. Terrific acceleration, of course, and it even got upwards of 26 MPG on long trips. I loved the heads up display. It was a beautiful car, too, with the Carbon Black paint that looked blue in the sun.

It will probably be my last German car. The price of parts and service had me scared, to be candid. Replacing the struts would be a $2K job. I shudder to think what it would cost to replace a turbo, which resides in the "hot-vee" of the engine. The car also had some annoying issues, like the Bluetooth interface didn't work right. The start-stop feature of the engine is a major PITA. I could never get the climate control to do what I wanted. The insurance was ridiculous. I sold it not long after the extended warranty ran out. I have fond memories, but am glad it's someone else's problem now.
 
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