The future car....
- Thread starter Oregoonian
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I hope they don't all look that ugly one day...
Doubtful, making air tanks doesn't generate the same revenue and government subsidies as making batteries...
Just another type of electric car. How does the air get compressed? With an air compressor. What do air compressors run on? Oh yeah...electricity! Although I will admit it allows for much faster refill/"recharge" times.
Just another form of energy storage...
Put another way: another "remote emission" vehicle...the energy stored in the compressed are has to be generated somewhere...
And then there is the truly ridiculous supposition at the end: that the car running on air can compress its own air and run forever...
Sure, just as soon as the laws of thermodynamics are repealed!
The scientific and technical ignorance of journalists never ceases to amaze me...
Put another way: another "remote emission" vehicle...the energy stored in the compressed are has to be generated somewhere...
And then there is the truly ridiculous supposition at the end: that the car running on air can compress its own air and run forever...
Sure, just as soon as the laws of thermodynamics are repealed!
The scientific and technical ignorance of journalists never ceases to amaze me...
Originally Posted By: exranger06
Just another type of electric car. How does the air get compressed? With an air compressor. What do air compressors run on? Oh yeah...electricity! Although I will admit it allows for much faster refill/"recharge" times.
Some one did not watch the video until the end. . . .
I hope this car does not get squashed by the oil companies.
Just another type of electric car. How does the air get compressed? With an air compressor. What do air compressors run on? Oh yeah...electricity! Although I will admit it allows for much faster refill/"recharge" times.
Some one did not watch the video until the end. . . .
I hope this car does not get squashed by the oil companies.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Just another form of energy storage...
Put another way: another "remote emission" vehicle...the energy stored in the compressed are has to be generated somewhere...
And then there is the truly ridiculous supposition at the end: that the car running on air can compress its own air and run forever...
Sure, just as soon as the laws of thermodynamics are repealed!
The scientific and technical ignorance of journalists never ceases to amaze me...
That's so true. What really smokes my cachonga's is the fact that people read these journalists blather, and then think they know something.
Just another form of energy storage...
Put another way: another "remote emission" vehicle...the energy stored in the compressed are has to be generated somewhere...
And then there is the truly ridiculous supposition at the end: that the car running on air can compress its own air and run forever...
Sure, just as soon as the laws of thermodynamics are repealed!
The scientific and technical ignorance of journalists never ceases to amaze me...
That's so true. What really smokes my cachonga's is the fact that people read these journalists blather, and then think they know something.
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
Some one did not watch the video until the end. . . .
It is amusing to watch the last little bit, where the narrator starts mocking the whole thing.
Some one did not watch the video until the end. . . .
It is amusing to watch the last little bit, where the narrator starts mocking the whole thing.
I'd rather this (very simple) sort of technology be used in cities than electric, or the so called "hydrogen economy".
Compressed air at least allows a "jump" start to get the discharged vehicle out of the traffic, if not a full charge from a tow/maintenance vehicle in a few minutes.
Astro's right, it moves emissions elsewhere, for better or for worse.
One of the things that we need to solve, is energy storage in off peak times when the wind is blowing, and the baseload plants can't be turned down any more.
There was a beautiful technology that stored compressed air in underground salt caverns, and then during the peaks fed that compressed air to the combustion section of a gas turbine, allowing about 2-3 times the peak power by seperating the compression and power parts of the cycle in time.
Compressed air at least allows a "jump" start to get the discharged vehicle out of the traffic, if not a full charge from a tow/maintenance vehicle in a few minutes.
Astro's right, it moves emissions elsewhere, for better or for worse.
One of the things that we need to solve, is energy storage in off peak times when the wind is blowing, and the baseload plants can't be turned down any more.
There was a beautiful technology that stored compressed air in underground salt caverns, and then during the peaks fed that compressed air to the combustion section of a gas turbine, allowing about 2-3 times the peak power by seperating the compression and power parts of the cycle in time.
Originally Posted By: rg200amp
exranger06 said:
Originally Posted By: BigBuck
Seeing a lot of arguments against the air car. What are some other good ideas for cars? Solar? What do you guys feel is the future?
Electric drive, with some form of fuel for range. Whether fuel cell or engine.
Electrochemical energy (batteries) cannot have the energy density of fuel. It's physically impossible. Yes, improvements will happen. But reality gets in the way of the hype. Batteries cannot do it alone, no matter what Joe Biden says (he claimed there would be a 1000 mile battery soon) . There is a concrete theoretical maximum, which leads to a practical maximum of just over 2.5 times the best LiPo energy density we get today.
Put another way, a Nissan Leaf loaded up with the very best "theoretical batteries" could make 140 to 250 miles on a charge, driven normally. Good enough? Yes probably. Unless you need to go on a road trip. Then the same old problems exist. Charging time, battery current limitations, charge locations, grid capacity, loss of interior room etc.
Seeing a lot of arguments against the air car. What are some other good ideas for cars? Solar? What do you guys feel is the future?
Electric drive, with some form of fuel for range. Whether fuel cell or engine.
Electrochemical energy (batteries) cannot have the energy density of fuel. It's physically impossible. Yes, improvements will happen. But reality gets in the way of the hype. Batteries cannot do it alone, no matter what Joe Biden says (he claimed there would be a 1000 mile battery soon) . There is a concrete theoretical maximum, which leads to a practical maximum of just over 2.5 times the best LiPo energy density we get today.
Put another way, a Nissan Leaf loaded up with the very best "theoretical batteries" could make 140 to 250 miles on a charge, driven normally. Good enough? Yes probably. Unless you need to go on a road trip. Then the same old problems exist. Charging time, battery current limitations, charge locations, grid capacity, loss of interior room etc.
Did he say 'perpetual motion'? I truly want to know, how a compressor that runs on compressed air can generate enough compression to fuel itself and fill the tanks... is this possible?
I mentioned, quite a while ago, a hydraulic hybrid. UPS is/was testing this concept in their fleet.
It was met with very high criticism, proclaiming that batteries are safer and more efficient, when hydraulic hybrid was never given a fair shake to prove its feasibility one way or another. Like I said, making carbon fiber tanks doesn't generate government grants or green image. Public is already conditioned to pick the winning technology, so bringing anything new will be almost impossible.
It was met with very high criticism, proclaiming that batteries are safer and more efficient, when hydraulic hybrid was never given a fair shake to prove its feasibility one way or another. Like I said, making carbon fiber tanks doesn't generate government grants or green image. Public is already conditioned to pick the winning technology, so bringing anything new will be almost impossible.
Every time someone posts a thread like this, it's the same ol' same ol'....the nay sayers pick everything apart and say it can't work, or it'll require more energy to use than we're already using. We need to get away from the mindset that there are no viable alternatives, nor can there be, therefore we must continue doing things the way they've always been done until we drive ourselves back into the stone age. There are alternatives and they will be viable some day (and we'd better hope that some day is pretty soon) because sometime in the not so distant future fossil fuels are going to become prohibitively expensive. Yes, there are hurdles to overcome with alternatives, but they must be pursued aggressively or this country as we know it today will be nothing but a big pile of rubble...
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Originally Posted By: grampi
Yes, there are hurdles to overcome with alternatives, but they must be pursued aggressively or this country as we know it today will be nothing but a big pile of rubble...
There are alternatives, of course. With the compressed air car, one has to really look at the intended market - India. There's a wide variety of vehicles there, from three wheelers to the most expensive vehicles on the planet. This vehicle isn't intended to replace the Benzes or BMWs on the road. It's there to be relatively cheap to run (albeit not the most efficient design) without a huge overhead cost and potential maintenance issues that, say, batteries would bring.
Look at where certain technologies are found. Electric lawn mowers (be they corded or cordless) are certainly a lot more popular than electric cars. The available technology fits the applications nicely.
The compressed air type car is certainly not going to replace the internal combustion car. I doubt, however, that was the intention in the first place.
Yes, there are hurdles to overcome with alternatives, but they must be pursued aggressively or this country as we know it today will be nothing but a big pile of rubble...
There are alternatives, of course. With the compressed air car, one has to really look at the intended market - India. There's a wide variety of vehicles there, from three wheelers to the most expensive vehicles on the planet. This vehicle isn't intended to replace the Benzes or BMWs on the road. It's there to be relatively cheap to run (albeit not the most efficient design) without a huge overhead cost and potential maintenance issues that, say, batteries would bring.
Look at where certain technologies are found. Electric lawn mowers (be they corded or cordless) are certainly a lot more popular than electric cars. The available technology fits the applications nicely.
The compressed air type car is certainly not going to replace the internal combustion car. I doubt, however, that was the intention in the first place.
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Lets just hope that the oil company's don't buy the patent and blue prints to this one too...
Refer to the hydrogen powered car.
Refer to the hydrogen powered car.
Originally Posted By: BigBuck
Seeing a lot of arguments against the air car. What are some other good ideas for cars? Solar? What do you guys feel is the future?
Pretty much what they look like today, only with more advanced technology. High compression, boosted, downsized, downspeeded DI gasoline engines. 8 or 9-speed transmissions. Some form of kinetic energy recovery (hybridization).
The energy storage for the hybrid system will probably be batteries, but compressed air may be feasible given its lower system cost, and flywheels may overtake batteries because of their superior energy storage density. The prime source of energy for the car will still be a hydrocarbon fuel.
Seeing a lot of arguments against the air car. What are some other good ideas for cars? Solar? What do you guys feel is the future?
Pretty much what they look like today, only with more advanced technology. High compression, boosted, downsized, downspeeded DI gasoline engines. 8 or 9-speed transmissions. Some form of kinetic energy recovery (hybridization).
The energy storage for the hybrid system will probably be batteries, but compressed air may be feasible given its lower system cost, and flywheels may overtake batteries because of their superior energy storage density. The prime source of energy for the car will still be a hydrocarbon fuel.
This idea does have legitimate applications as mentioned above. I would love to see it happen. Unfortunately, like all great ideas (EVO1 being a huge example) there is little profit to be made from it and no way to enslave humanity like the gasoline does with the IC engines...so it will quietly die away.
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