THE DRIVE TOWARD THINNING ENGINE OILS

[Exhaustgases]

Not to worry. If there is still engines as we know them with direct injection the oil will be automatically thinned as you drive.
But as time goes by your electric motor will have life time sealed ball bearings so you won't need to worry about the oil viscosity any more.
Burning anything for power in a car or truck will be forbidden.
Its called the green new deal and is closer than you would think now.

 

[spasm3]

.
Burning anything for power in a car or truck will be forbidden.

Where do you think the power comes from? Instead of being burned in the car, its burned somewhere else.

 

[blingo]

Last chance of coming back for Cadillac, Chevrolet, Buick... The 0W-4 sciences alone were insufficient, too little too late, but remain relevant for pickups a little longer and even longer for the vessels of grander schemes

What's the minimum with on-highway HDEO these days, is it 0W-20?

 

[4WD]

Hey= let‘s mix a dozen threads together and have “thick & thin stew”

 

[Silver]

Does this make sense?

"Thinner engine oils cause less friction... but engage reduced oil film thicknesses"

So friction and oil film thickness are not directly related? In my mind friction and drag are not exactly the same, and I think of a thicker oil causing more drag, but less friction. I'm probably wrong.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Does this make sense?

"Thinner engine oils cause less friction... but engage reduced oil film thicknesses"

So friction and oil film thickness are not directly related? In my mind friction and drag are not exactly the same, and I think of a thicker oil causing more drag, but less friction. I'm probably wrong.

Less oil shearing friction going on with a thinner film thickness ... but possibly more mechanical friction from parts rubbing on each other because the oil film is thinner. Two separate things going on at the same time.

 

[gregk24]

Less oil shearing friction going on with a thinner film thickness ... but possibly more mechanical friction from parts rubbing on each other because the oil film is thinner. Two separate things going on at the same time.

Parts are either rubbing on each other or they aren't, there is no in between right? As long as parts are separated wear should be equal regardless of oil film thickness.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Parts are either rubbing on each other or they aren't, there is no in between right? As long as parts are separated wear should be equal regardless of oil film thickness.

On a microscopic level, it's more complicated than either touching or not. It depends on the surface roughness of each part during the boundry and mix lubrication realms, and just how far/deep the surfaces are "grating" against each other as a function of the minimum oil film thickness (MOFT) trying to keep the surfaces apart.

 

[Silver]

Wow, so that statement is misleading in such a way that in regards to engine wear, the opposite is true.

 

[kschachn]

Wow, so that statement is misleading in such a way that in regards to engine wear, the opposite is true.

Which statement and how? What ZeeOSix posted is exactly correct. It is all connected to adequate MOFT and is why that's so important.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Look at the "Types of Lubrication" section in the Machinery Lubrication article below. If the surface roughness (surface asperities) are large, and/or the oil MOFT is small, you will get more metal-to-metal contact, more rubbing friction (different than oil layer shearing friction), and more wear when in the boundary and mixed lubrication domains. Lubrication has to be in full film (full hydrodynamic) lubrication with enough MOFT to prevent any metal-to-metal contact between the moving parts. The relative speed between parts, and the oil viscosity are strong factors of what the MOFT will be between two moving parts.

What Is Lubrication?

Lubrication is the control of friction and wear by the introduction of a friction-reducing film between moving surfaces in contact. The lubricant used can be a fluid, solid, or plastic subst…

www.machinerylubrication.com

 

[gregk24]

When will some accept the fact that 20 weights have been out for 20 years with good results. We aren't seeing engines fail because manufactures went down to 20 weight oil.

There are a few members on here to like to post that in other countries they spec a significantly thicker oil and in the US that same engine gets Xw20. Those members often say that the US engines were not designed around 20 weight blah blah blah, yet here we are 20 years later and those same engines are soldiering on. When will we accept actual data?

Also of note, as real and present as the push for higher MPG is, manufactures aren't going to spec an oil that will significantly reduce engine life. If there were a large number of engine failures that manufactures sales will start to tank.

 

[4WD]

When will some accept the fact that 20 weights have been out for 20 years with good results. We aren't seeing engines fail because manufactures went down to 20 weight oil.

There are a few members on here to like to post that in other countries they spec a significantly thicker oil and in the US that same engine gets Xw20. Those members often say that the US engines were not designed around 20 weight blah blah blah, yet here we are 20 years later and those same engines are soldiering on. When will we accept actual data?

Also of note, as real and present as the push for higher MPG is, manufactures aren't going to spec an oil that will significantly reduce engine life. If there were a large number of engine failures that manufactures sales will start to tank.

Oh man, you are going to need a pair of these now

 

[dblshock]

Couple threads down there's a member adding 3 qts. to a Subaru on a short OCI, I realize they're not all like that mess but many are....why?

 

[gregk24]

Couple threads down there's a member adding 3 qts. to a Subaru on a short OCI, I realize they're not all like that mess but many are....why?

Many Subarus maybe, but if it were an oil viscosity problem it would be evidenced across all manufactures using Xw20 oils, which by now most are. That just isn't the case.

 

[kschachn]

Many Subarus maybe, but if it were an oil viscosity problem it would be evidenced across all manufactures using Xw20 oils, which by now most are. That just isn't the case.

Engine designs (and condition) are different. That’s what the post was about, not about oil. The HT/HS of a 20-grade oil is adequate in many circumstances but not necessarily optimal. This is demonstrated in the recommendations for a higher grade when towing for example. One has a hard time explaining away or dismissing an adequate MOFT under all conditions.

 

[gregk24]

Engine designs (and condition) are different. That’s what the post was about, not about oil. The HT/HS of a 20-grade oil is adequate in many circumstances but not necessarily optimal. This is demonstrated in the recommendations for a higher grade when towing for example. One has a hard time explaining away or dismissing an adequate MOFT under all conditions.

Certainly. Most passenger vehicles will do just fine though on a 20 weight going about their daily duties.

 

[ZeeOSix]

When will some accept the fact that 20 weights have been out for 20 years with good results. We aren't seeing engines fail because manufactures went down to 20 weight oil.

There are a few members on here to like to post that in other countries they spec a significantly thicker oil and in the US that same engine gets Xw20. Those members often say that the US engines were not designed around 20 weight blah blah blah, yet here we are 20 years later and those same engines are soldiering on. When will we accept actual data?

Also of note, as real and present as the push for higher MPG is, manufactures aren't going to spec an oil that will significantly reduce engine life. If there were a large number of engine failures that manufactures sales will start to tank.

There's a big difference between engines failing ("blowing up") and engines having a little more wear over over the long haul and still running "fine" at high mileage. An engine can get pretty worn out before anyone driving it can tell a difference in performance when driving around in a normal fashion.

It's been shown in engine wear vs oil viscosity studies that thinner oil (usually a bit below 2.6 HTHS) starts increasing engine wear pretty noticeably on some engine parts. It's not a bad thing to have more HTHS and MOFT headroom to help prevent additional engine wear IMO. But yeah, most cars on the road aren't going to fail or blow-up if they use xW-20 ... but engine failure isn't the focus, it's engine wear.

 

[gregk24]

There's a big difference between engines failing ("blowing up") and engines having a little more wear over over the long haul and still running "fine" at high mileage. An engine can get pretty worn out before anyone driving it can tell a difference in performance when driving around in a normal fashion.

It's been shown in engine wear vs oil viscosity studies that thinner oil (usually a bit below 2.6 HTHS) starts increasing engine wear pretty noticeably on some engine parts. It's not a bad thing to have more HTHS and MOFT headroom to help prevent additional engine wear IMO. But yeah, most cars on the road aren't going to fail or blow-up if they use xW-20 ... but engine failure isn't the focus, it's engine wear.

If an engine goes 200k on 0w20 wouldn’t you call that a good run? Most people aren’t looking to keep their vehicles beyond that mark. In fact I’d say they trade in much sooner.

Also, consider drivers such as my wife and I. We both live less than 2 miles from our jobs. The grocery stores are within 5 miles. 0w20 is still thicker than it needs to be during those drives. So why bump up a grade in those cases? Just playing devils advocate.

I have little concern over using 0w20 even in other more taxing operation such as highway driving, if they manufacture specs it. But certainly, around town when an engine spends little time as full operating temp, that’s an even stronger case for using 0w20 where specified.

 

[Silver]

Which statement and how? What ZeeOSix posted is exactly correct. It is all connected to adequate MOFT and is why that's so important.

No, this statement from the original post.
"Thinner engine oils cause less friction... but engage reduced oil film thicknesses"