The current thinking on "multi-purpose" 2-c oil?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
7
Location
MI
I've read some of the older posts on the subject but now that these oils are neither "new" or "rare" I'd like to know if they're more acceptable? I'm investigating this because I have a cottage with 3 outboards, chainsaw, and a trimmer. I'd like to be able to keep one gas/oil mix around because only one (the larger outboard) gets regular use, so other fuel mixes can go bad before ever needed. Bonus if these m-p oils are the bomb because I have even more chainsaws & trimmers at home ;-)
 
Joined
Jan 10, 2008
Messages
4,998
Location
Milwaukee, WI
If you're buying a multi purpose tcw-3 that's really an outboard oil that's then magically OK to use in air cooled equipment I don't think that's such a terrible thing. Of course that's assuming that it's not a family heirloom chainsaw and trimmer. I would not buy a multi purpose oil not labeled tcw-3 and use it in an outboard.
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2003
Messages
18,163
Location
NE,Ohio
all of them have this stupid disclaimer not word for word "good to use in all air cooled 2-stroke equipment recommending tc-w3" since regular OPE all say API TC and not tc-w3.. its not good. just use api tc jaso fc/fd in regular ope and use a decent name brand tc-w3 in outboards.. obviously if you have racing outboards you need something even better. here is an example: notice it says nothing about using it in equipment recommending api TC most average Joe's probably figure tc-w3 is better than TC but its not.. 2 different specs. 5 Bitog points if you can find me any "air cooled" ope such as chainsaws or string trimmers recommending tc-w3 crush
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 3, 2012
Messages
6,023
Location
Florida
Havoline TC-W3 says it's good for API TC applications. My Echo specs EGD or FC/FD.
Quote:
Havoline 2-Cycle Engine Oil TC-W3 has excellent low temperature mixing characteristics that make it suitable for use in cold climate conditions. Havoline 2-Cycle Engine Oil TC-W3: • is licensed under the NMMA TC-W3 performance standard. Registration #RL-92334D. • is formulated to meet ISO-L EGB (JASO FB) passing criteria • is formulated to meet API TC requirements for use in air-cooled two-stroke applications
 
Last edited:
Joined
Sep 25, 2004
Messages
9,436
Location
Marshfield , MA
I am finishing off a qt of Valvoline universal. I mix it at an oily 32:1 Heading into my 4th season on the bottle with no issues yet.
 
Joined
Aug 20, 2003
Messages
18,163
Location
NE,Ohio
how can an oil be both ashless and low ash?? is their oil the new holy grail of oil.. doubtful. you need the additives that are left out to make ashless tc-w3 to protect air cooled that spec api-tc. (ash coming from the burning of certain oil additives) it may be ok in low performance applications. but for any hard run air cooled performance motor its a big NO. Jaso FC/FD both exceed basic api-tc for lubrication spec IIRC FD and FC are both similar but FD specs more detergency/cleanliness
Originally Posted By: hatt
Havoline TC-W3 says it's good for API TC applications. My Echo specs EGD or FC/FD.
Quote:
Havoline 2-Cycle Engine Oil TC-W3 has excellent low temperature mixing characteristics that make it suitable for use in cold climate conditions. Havoline 2-Cycle Engine Oil TC-W3: • is licensed under the NMMA TC-W3 performance standard. Registration #RL-92334D. • is formulated to meet ISO-L EGB (JASO FB) passing criteria • is formulated to meet API TC requirements for use in air-cooled two-stroke applications
 
Last edited:

guy48065

Thread starter
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
7
Location
MI
Why get hung up on "this needs ash", "ashless for that"? That's an old rut. Isn't the point of oil progress to improve oil performance so it's better than the old stand-bys? Aren't we there now? I'm not a petro chemist but I think the objective is to move beyond putting custom additive packages in dino oil and find a synth base that meets the needs of both applications.
 
Joined
Dec 16, 2006
Messages
972
Location
Sweden
I have had coking problems running shell tc-w3 in a trimmer but I don't know why. Anyways, Q8 marine bio TT, a local oil, has the following rating "API TC+, BIA/NMMA TC-W3, OMC (Johnson, Evinrude), TSC-4, Volvo STD 97455-20". And Klotz 50:1 TechniPlate® TC-W3 Meets and exceeds JASO FD, ISO-EGD, TC-W, NMMA TC-W3 and API TC specifications for certified warranty compliance. So they should not pose any problem to use in non water cooled engines, I think the ashless requirement is mainly a emissions rule, so an ashless TC-W3 oil that meets land based requirements should be fine. You could run ash laden oil in an outboard too, but then cause harm to marine life, so that's a no-no. There are also some heat ranges that may be of interest but I think the two I listed and also the Pennzoil should do great in non racing situations, like garden stuff and the general 40 hp outboard. If I ran high output bikes or HO PWC's, then I would use very specific oils.
 

MolaKule

Staff member
Joined
Jun 5, 2002
Messages
22,794
Location
Iowegia - USA
Originally Posted By: guy48065
I've read some of the older posts on the subject but now that these oils are neither "new" or "rare" I'd like to know if they're more acceptable? I'm investigating this because I have a cottage with 3 outboards, chainsaw, and a trimmer. I'd like to be able to keep one gas/oil mix around because only one (the larger outboard) gets regular use, so other fuel mixes can go bad before ever needed. Bonus if these m-p oils are the bomb because I have even more chainsaws & trimmers at home ;-)
You can, but what I have found is these oils are a bit thicker and you may need to reduce the Oil-to-Gas ratio, or stating it another way, Increase the Gas-to-Oil ratio. For example, if your equipment requires a 40:1 ratio, you may have to go to a 50:1, or even a 60:1 ratio.
 
Joined
Jan 3, 2012
Messages
6,023
Location
Florida
Even if TC-W3 oil might not be ideal for chainsaws and the like, for seldom used equipment, will it ever matter? Having a fresher mix may yield more dividends than the proper oil.
 
Joined
Jul 24, 2011
Messages
1,718
Location
Missouri
I ran Supertech universal meeting tcw3 in a chainsaw and trimmer for a few seasons. Neither of them blew up. It might not be ideal but will get the job done. I would be more concerned about having an acceptable ratio for all engines and fresh fuel mix.
 

guy48065

Thread starter
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
7
Location
MI
These thoughts are mine as well. Chainsaws and string trimmers are not high performance engines and they mostly run fast - so high heat isn't a big concern. WIth so many big-name oil companies backing multi-purpose oils that claim to do it all, I'm not seeing any logic to the posts that say "you can't do that". It just looks to me like entrenched opinions. I still haven't had a chance to go shopping to see if any are stocked locally. I'm hoping to find something in the max $6-$10/qt. range.
 
Joined
Jan 3, 2012
Messages
6,023
Location
Florida
If you don't use the equipment much the premixed stuff would be fine. High quality and stores for years. I make up a gallon of gas a year for a trimmer and blower and usually end up pouring half into something at the end of the year. I end up saving $4-5 a year. If I didn't have fancy one gal safety can that needs to do something and E0 gas three miles down the road I'd buy the premix. When you get down to it, it's really not worth the time and effort to fool around with this stuff. TC-W3 isn't the right oil. Getting the right oil is cheap and easy.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Aug 20, 2003
Messages
18,163
Location
NE,Ohio
I dont doubt those top dollar high performance oils could possibly work in both applications, 5$/qt pennzoil etc... still doubting.
 

guy48065

Thread starter
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
7
Location
MI
Last night I read an excellent (and long) post on a boat forum explaining that TC-W, TC-WII, and TC-W3 marine oils are all formulations with performance compromised to achieve cleaner burning. Many manufacturers of 2-cycle air-cooled devices got on board with the environmental goal and specified the marine oil in their owner's manuals. Until they started having warranty problems with scuffing & ring sticking. Then they returned to API and JASO spec oil. At least this explains why some air-cooled devices call for oil designed for water-cooled engines and why so many "multi-purpose" oils contain sketchy language like "...for air-cooled engines that require a TC-W3 oil". Also explains why some manufacturers of new water-cooled PWCs recommend NOT using TC-W3. Wouldn't the latest high quality synthetic-base FD spec oil perform better and burn cleaner in air-cooled AND water-cooled heat ranges?
 
Joined
Dec 16, 2006
Messages
972
Location
Sweden
yes, but one reason for tc-w is protection of marine life, and that's why they are ashless etc. The other difference may be related to marine engines running cooler due to the unlimited cooling water supply. I am sure you could run FD oil an outboard mech-wise, but it could be bad for your lake.
 

guy48065

Thread starter
Joined
Mar 4, 2009
Messages
7
Location
MI
Ok I'll put my trust in the manufactures recommendations. They should know what's best.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top