The comment on BITOG that provided me great hope this week “turning rotors”.

[KrisZ]

The irony is that that would likely mean even more factory jobs going unfilled. The WSJ reported yesterday there was a record number of unfilled manufacturing jobs in the US.

Did it mention what these jobs were paying by any chance? I have a feeling it’s the case of wanting labor for dirt cheap and if there are no takers, complain nobody wants them, so we need more “migrants”.

Cause we all know Americans don’t want to work, right?

Pay them enough and they will come, but corps got used to cheap labor, massive handouts and want this to continue. It’s about time we stop this nonsense.

 

[Nick1994]

So tax the rich is the answer to prosperity then? You’re welcome to show me an economy where it was done and it thrived.

Or, wild idea, we can leave it alone to how it’s been for years, keep trillions in income coming in, and still allow them to have all the tax loopholes they use to have a very low effective tax rate as it is.

I could potentially see this having some economic benefit for having a lower corporate tax rate, but benefiting the wealthy at their own personal income tax rate? Give me a break. That takes some really special rose colored glasses.

 

[KrisZ]

Or, wild idea, we can leave it alone to how it’s been for years, keep trillions in income coming in, and still allow them to have all the tax loopholes they use to have a very low effective tax rate as it is.

I could potentially see this having some economic benefit for having a lower corporate tax rate, but benefiting the wealthy at their own personal income tax rate? Give me a break. That takes some really special rose colored glasses.

Do you have any concept of the deficit spending, national debt, trade deficit and how it’s going to impact our future?
What we’ve been doing for decades has led us exactly to where we are today, even the most liberal analysts recognize this level of debt and deficits cannot be sustained for much longer.

It’s quite amusing you see plenty of wrong with the current plan, yet you’re totally oblivious of the current way of doing things.

 

[Nick1994]

Do you have any concept of the deficit spending, national debt, trade deficit and how it’s going to impact our future?
What we’ve been doing for decades has led us exactly to where we are today, even the most liberal analysts recognize this level of debt and deficits cannot be sustained for much longer.

It’s quite amusing you see plenty of wrong with the current plan, yet you’re totally oblivious of the current way of doing things.

So cutting revenue is the way to do it?

If you were heavily in debt and trying to pay it off, wouldn’t you agree it would be a bad idea to take a step down to a lower position with a pay cut?

I don’t claim to be an expert, but I did graduate from business school.

 

[KrisZ]

So cutting revenue is the way to do it?

If you were heavily in debt and trying to pay it off, wouldn’t you agree it would be a bad idea to take a step down to a lower position with a pay cut?

First, taxes are not revenue.
Second, there is more going on than just cutting taxes. We’re cutting on massive gov spending and paving a way to open up more manufacturing and engineering activity here. Now, is it going to work? We don’t know, but what we’ve do know is that doing “what we’ve been doing for years” is not going to get us there. It’s a 100% chance of failure, we just don’t know when.

So your example is incomplete. A more representative one would be cutting your expenses and stepping down or even quitting your job in order to improve one’s education or skillset. That would put an individual in a much better position not only to pay down the debt, but also to flourish afterwords.

 

[alarmguy]

So the answer is starting a global tariffs war? Where does this end?

When everyone agrees to stop taxing our products coming into their country and we agree the same?

 

[alarmguy]

Again, all you’re doing is pointing out the potential failures and in your mind you’ve already deemed it a failure, as well as tons of other “experts” that now have a lot to say, where in the past they were all dead silent.

My opinion is that given no other alternatives being done in the past, let’s give this one a chance. These tariffs can be as easily removed as they were implemented.

I agree, however I do think where should have challenged one part of the world at a time. Maybe starting with China, instead of the whole world all at once *LOL*
With that said I am glad we are no longer rolling over and taking it. In a matter of a few months, what takes place should have taken place a long time ago. Also for others, let's remember that CHINA is NOT our friend.

 

[KrisZ]

I agree, however I do think where should have challenged one part of the world at a time. Maybe starting with China, instead of the whole world all at once *LOL*
With that said I am glad we are no longer rolling over and taking it. In a matter of a few months, what takes place should have taken place a long time ago. Also for others, let's remember that CHINA is NOT our friend.

Nah, he just would’ve been called racist for targeting China alone. Everyone got the same treatment, can’t get any more equal than that.

 

[JeffKeryk]

When everyone agrees to stop taxing our products coming into their country and we agree the same?

I am not arguing against targeted tariffs; in fact I am for them. I am arguing against global tariffs.
Maybe you and I could go to work stitching together blue jeans for $3 per day?

 

[Rust_Belt_Pete]

I am already unhappy with the prices but I decided to go with an American tool cart. I am shopping around as we speak.

 

[alarmguy]

I am not arguing against targeted tariffs; in fact I am for them. I am arguing against global tariffs.
Maybe you and I could go to work stitching together blue jeans for $3 per day?

I’m retired, I don’t need the money

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Did it mention what these jobs were paying by any chance? I have a feeling it’s the case of wanting labor for dirt cheap and if there are no takers, complain nobody wants them, so we need more “migrants”.

Cause we all know Americans don’t want to work, right?

Pay them enough and they will come, but corps got used to cheap labor, massive handouts and want this to continue. It’s about time we stop this nonsense.

It did not but pay is commensurate with the value of the job rather than some individual's sense of self-worth. Oh and yes there are young men who would rather live at home with their parents and try to make a living via social media rather than work in a factory. The horror of having options.

 

[KrisZ]

It did not but pay is commensurate with the value of the job rather than some individual's sense of self-worth. Oh and yes there are young men who would rather live at home with their parents and try to make a living via social media rather than work in a factory. The horror of having options.

Agreed, there are plenty of lazy people, but it's not like there was a shortage of lazy people in the past.

In regards to pay, if companies cannot find workers, then whatever compensation they're offering is clearly not in line with the market value. Perhaps the managers doing the hiring think it's fair, but the market has clearly spoken, they just refuse to adjust.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Agreed, there are plenty of lazy people, but it's not like there was a shortage of lazy people in the past.

In regards to pay, if companies cannot find workers, then whatever compensation they're offering is clearly not in line with the market value. Perhaps the managers doing the hiring think it's fair, but the market has clearly spoken, they just refuse to adjust.

I would say there was a shortage of lazy people because they didn't have as many options.
In any case if managers can't hire they automate. If that doesn't work they offshore. They don't run a charity.

 

[ripcord]

Or, wild idea, we can leave it alone to how it’s been for years, keep trillions in income coming in, and still allow them to have all the tax loopholes they use to have a very low effective tax rate as it is.

I could potentially see this having some economic benefit for having a lower corporate tax rate, but benefiting the wealthy at their own personal income tax rate? Give me a break. That takes some really special rose colored glasses.

Not rose colored glasses, just some understanding of economics, human nature and compound interest.

Going with the status quo means default on the national debt followed by a global depression in short order. The trajectory we're on has us circling the drain with Treasury debt and interest payments that consume most of the federal budget.

 

[slo town]

Interesting reading all these posts with their varying viewpoints. IMO, offshoring, tariffs, deficits, you name it - they won't crater America.

Irreconcilable social divisions will and stoking that social division is part of the long term strategic plan by certain entities.

Scott

 

[buster]

Put 10 economist in a room and you'll get 11 opinions.

I think bonds need actual job losses to move on from here....not just the threat or anticipation of job losses. Time will tell.

Some have said its fine if markets crash so long as it means manufacturing jobs come back. What type of manufacturing jobs? Do we have the skilled labor for it? How are companies going to make long-term investments if they don't know the rules and the government is picking winers and losers?

I think we'll be ok. Some short run pain/bumps in the road for hopefully more long run stability.

Another point:

"The US didn’t lose manufacturing—it revolutionized it.
Today, we make more with fewer workers, using less labor and fewer resources.
That’s not failure. That’s progress.
The decline in US manufacturing jobs began decades before NAFTA or China’s WTO entry—populists are blaming recent trade policy for a trend that started in 1943.
Blame technology, not trade—and don’t fall for the populist nostalgia trap.”

Source: CATO Institute

 

[Rust_Belt_Pete]

I am sure we all disagree how to get there but I think we all want a prosperous America with every one being able to have a good paying job and a future they can look forward to.

 

[SC Maintenance]

I could potentially see this having some economic benefit for having a lower corporate tax rate, but benefiting the wealthy at their own personal income tax rate? Give me a break. That takes some really special rose colored glasses.

If you really are open minded - go look up Luke Gromen. He has studied this back to the creation of the fed, during which time we have had top line tax rates from 25% to 96%. Tax revenue never increases - it always stays at 18% of GDP or less. Were at like 17.5% now.

What percentage of GDP do you think the federal government should get to provide the minimal services they do?

Tax the rich sounds nice, but never works. You can try again, you will get the same result.

 

[Vil_Riker]

Sorry, I'll study post war tariff results from Japan and the Republic of Korea (ROK), along with studying Chinse tariffs, well before studying tenured U.S. economic professors.

I'll never forget working on my first master's degree, a never practicing lawyer teaching business law stating an individual could own a corporation. I had to educate this professor that an individual can't own a corporation.

Care to elaborate? An individual can be the sole shareholder of a corporation.