The Auto Industry & the American Economy

[miked2]

If you have some time to read this:

http://www.thecarconnection.com/Auto_New...11981.html?pg=1

....you may find it as informative as I did.

Any & all opinions are welcomed.

 

[PT1]

It's true but so too many people are gunshy from all the poor quality products made by GM, Ford & Dcx for so many years...add the high quality of Honda & Toyota and it's hard to bring customers back to the Big 3 dinner table. Then throw in the UAW assembly problems and you have rolled out the carpet for the Japanese to take over.

 

[Gilitar]

The UAW has to go.







.

 

[Aldaris]

that article is mindless propaganda

 

[wileyE]

Listened to GM spokesman ona radio show the other day talk about the companies future. Of note he said bottom line they are sort of stuck between a rock and a hard spot. They need to start selling cars, and lots of them. And they need to rebuild a reputation for quality. They know they can move some cars with some really good discount pricing, make em just plain more vehicle for the buck. But there is problem with percieved quaity vs price with consumers, if it's cheap it must not be good quality, if it's expensive it must be good quality. Selling low to move the vehicles would be counterproductive to building the quality image up.
So a solution to this problem that is being kicked around is a direct sales program for the consumer. Basically allowing the consumer to order right from the factory with the appearance at least of cutting out the middleman dealers. Then the instead of the consumer thinking the car is "cheap" and low quality, the consumer can feel he just got a great price buying direct. The dealers have the most to lose from this program so it may not be long term, but just a window that could be open or closed as needed to move alot of vehicles. He also said that ford and chrysler are watching real close what gm is going to do. If this program is offered it's proabaly going to be one of the best times in recent history to buy a American car.

When asked about labor cost, he made an intersting comment IMO. Modern manufacturing plants are such that 1 employee may run a machine that is so hugely productive on a line that turns out 100's of vehicles a day. What that employee receives in compensation plays very little into the price of the automobile.

 

[John_K]

After suffering through my wife's POS Buick, GM will have one #@$%! of a time convincing me to buy again.

John

 

[otis24]

There is definitely a lot of blame to go around. The first line of blame lies with the politicians. They have allowed the American economy to be the whore of the world for eons. We should have demanded free access to foreign markets. They should have erected the same nationalist and protectionist barriers to the foreign markets as we received. The U.S. auto market is on the slippery slope of decline and picking up speed fast. I could see the writing on the wall when I was a teen in high school. It don't take no rocket surgeon!
Second to blame our the U.S. auto manufactures themselves. They have produced inferior products for far too long! Every time the American consumer raised a voice of protest, the auto manufacturers waved old glory and yelled "patriotism", all the while expecting the American car buyer to take it in the shorts so the could pad their fat wallets.
Thirdly, the American auto worker themselves are to blame. They too are part of the quality problem (along with the UAW). One should not receive a pay raise simply for punching a time card. An effective quality control program should have eliminated unproductive workers and rewarded those whom produced quality products.
It ain't rocket science folks! There is a very simple, very American principal at play here. Are you listening? Shhhh! Don't tell anybody, but around here, we call it the "free enterprise system". It works like this "if you build it, they will buy". Produce #@$%!, you will get #@$%! in return.
Americans will spend there dollars, but they want quality in return.
Rant off!

 

[mormit]

The article poses an interestng scenaio that is half correct at best.

What is left out from their story of a foreign automaker building cars locally is that the home teams (GM being the worst) have abandoned thier home turf and are passing Mexican, korean, and soon to come Chinese vehicles and parts as American.

This is a top down failure. Don't like the unions? Yep, they gave us the 40hr work week, pensions, vacation time, holiday pay and such. I'm not affiliated with one myself so I'm sure they should go.

 

[Tornado Red]

Whenever any company fails in the marketplace, it is nearly always the fault of that company's management team.

Either they are making the wrong products, or inferior products, or their costs are too high. If the latter, then they have to take charge of those costs, and not just try to pass them along to the customers.

The author blames government trade policy from the 1980s to the present. I blame the Big 3 manufacturers for their bad strategic decisions from the 1970s to the present.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

Quote:

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It's true but so too many people are gunshy from all the poor quality products made by GM, Ford & Dcx for so many years...add the high quality of Honda & Toyota and it's hard to bring customers back to the Big 3 dinner table. Then throw in the UAW assembly problems and you have rolled out the carpet for the Japanese to take over.

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If what you say is true, then why is the average age of American cars older than the average age of Japanese cars in junkyards throughout America?

 

[FowVay]

General Motors lost me as a new car customer with my last purchase of a pickup truck back in 1996. The poor quality product matched with the dishonesty of their dealership and corporate non-support of the product is what has driven me from the marque.

None of their products appeal to me in the very least. I absolutely hate driving spongy cars with automatic transmissions. I enjoy some feedback from the machinery that I operate. Drum brakes, low reving pushrod engines, flat seating surfaces and a overall feeling of cheesy plastic switchgear is such a turn-off that I don't even waste my time driving onto a GM car lot anymore.

A friend of mine recently visited from the Netherlands and rented a Chevrolet Cobalt. This is GM's recently introduced vehicle to compete in the small car market. I was ashamed of the thing. Rear drums brakes and door handles that were ready to pull out of their sockets was the very first thing that caught my eye.

Does it matter that this junk is built in the USA or China? NO! Junk is junk. It's just a shame that people try to use patriotism as a excuse for the stuff. Chevrolet doesn't sell well in other parts of the world because the cars are unappealing. Not because there is some deep rooted conspiracy to support nationalism and the home team. People simply don't like the product. How do you drive this idea home to the guys that make the decisions in the ivory tower of GM? I truly don't think they care.

Just curious but what does the average age of a junkyard car have to do with GM's success or failure of marketing a product in this country?

 

[454MAG]

The big three are at a huge disadvantage due to the fact that they pay for their employees healthcare whereas the japneese and koreans do not. Having seen the quality of life in japan and korea first hand I find it very sad that the American middle class manufacturing work force is heading in that direction.
Fow way taking the cheapest car chevy builds in rental trim and saying that represents the quality of GM is pretty lame.
I will take my "low revving push rod engine" LS1 and blow the doors off any "high tech" foreign car built for twice the price and get better gas mileage and reliability at the same time.

 

[obbop]

I fear for the future of the Union.

Better learn Espanol.

Comprende?

 

[smoke]

Quote:

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Quote:

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It's true but so too many people are gunshy from all the poor quality products made by GM, Ford & Dcx for so many years...add the high quality of Honda & Toyota and it's hard to bring customers back to the Big 3 dinner table. Then throw in the UAW assembly problems and you have rolled out the carpet for the Japanese to take over.

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If what you say is true, then why is the average age of American cars older than the average age of Japanese cars in junkyards throughout America?

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in a nutshell, because what he says is akin to the proverbial 'whisper in the ear of your neighbor' game where the end result is at best an exaggeration of the initial comment and at worst a simple untruth

 

[Gilitar]

Quote:

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I fear for the future of the Union.

Better learn Espanol.

Comprende?

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Why fear for them? The members that they represent are over paid. The unions need to be in places like Wal-Mart.

 

[smoke]

Quote:

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Just curious but what does the average age of a junkyard car have to do with GM's success or failure of marketing a product in this country?

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i don't speak for him, but my interpretation is that he's not talking about GM's success or failure but rather the topic of quality of american automobiles...which reminds me of a long-term quality survey i read a few months ago that provided stark contrast to the prevailing attitude that japanese cars are 'better'--the study included length of ownership info and the reliability ratings of the japanese cars paled in comparison to those of american cars after 3 years of ownership

i found it interesting that most buyers of japanese brands in the study didn't keep a car nearly as long as those who purchased american

what does it all mean? i don't know for sure, but i have a suspicion that things are a bit more complicated than the 30-second soundbyte mentality that permeates society today

but hey, if there's a nice catch-phrase, why bother right?

most manufacturers build a quality product these days, and it's up to the consumer to decide which he/she wishes to purchase...it's unfortunate that in many instances reputation rules

reputation can be a good indicator of character, but i keep in mind that bullies usually have a reputation for being tough too...

 

[brianl703]

Quote:

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Quote:

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I fear for the future of the Union.

Better learn Espanol.

Comprende?

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Why fear for them? The members that they represent are over paid. The unions need to be in places like Wal-Mart.

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In the context that Obbopp used it, "Union" is referring to this country (the USA, not the forthcoming North American Union, a merger of the USA, Mexico, and Canada).

 

[Lonnie]

You must remember if you're a card carring member of the UAW that profits are bad, the company is evil and they owe you a job and a pay check, with healthcare and a retirement. If the evil company is making too much money, it's money out of your hard sweat and should have been in your paycheck. If you read that the company is starting to make a profit it's a sign that you should slow down, you must be working too hard. And if you see someone else working too hard you must remind them that you are all in the same boat and not to pull a stunt like that, ever again. And if you see something going wrong, move out of the way so they don't blame it on you. Just remember if the company starts making a profit it could be your fault. I'd hate to face my friends in the parking lot knowing I contributed to something like that.

 

[Mokanic]

Quote:

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After suffering through my wife's POS Buick, GM will have one #@$%! of a time convincing me to buy again.

John

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Multiply your story by several hundred thousand and it's easy to see why the big three are in the crapper. I love how some like to complicate the subject and blame everyone from the Japanese to aliens when it really boils down to your testimony.
I would say at least 85% of my shop's customers were loyal big three car owners at one time and tell the same story that you do. They have left for good unless major changes take place with GM and Ford. Some on this board would have you think that the import owner is a young kid that has never given domestics a try and that simply is not true. I have just as many retiree age customers driving imports as I do 30 somethings.
It's not about anything except quality. Blame whomever you wish but until real quality is put back in cars by GM and Ford it's not getting better for them. I do think they have made some improvements but not enough to win back customers who bailed out of a lemon and purchased an import that has run flawlessly for them.



How long before this turns into a Toyota bashing?

 

[Mokanic]

Quote:

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You must remember if you're a card carring member of the UAW that profits are bad, the company is evil and they owe you a job and a pay check, with healthcare and a retirement. If the evil company is making too much money, it's money out of your hard sweat and should have been in your paycheck. If you read that the company is starting to make a profit it's a sign that you should slow down, you must be working too hard. And if you see someone else working too hard you must remind them that you are all in the same boat and not to pull a stunt like that, ever again. And if you see something going wrong, move out of the way so they don't blame it on you. Just remember if the company starts making a profit it could be your fault. I'd hate to face my friends in the parking lot knowing I contributed to something like that.

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My father was a life-long UAW member and he got spit on,threatened,car vandalized,ect. for crossing a picket line and going to work. I guess feeding his family was not that important. I can remember many stories that he would tell about employees producing trash without concern becouse they were union employees and were not afraid of loosing their jobs. It really #@$%! him off to see the total lack of pride in alot(not all)of the workers.
I think the UAW plays a part in the blame but not all of it lies at their feet.
Your post points out part of the problem but it goes alot farther than that.