That sea of sheet metal

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Yes, it was a search and destroy mission, sort of...It was my turn to get into sticker shock--again.

So, here we are- looking out over 5 dealerships of assorted sheet metal--acres of fun awaited me.

There were greys,blacks,whites,a few reds and a blue or two. Large SUV's were into the 50k range and small ones at the 25k to 35k range....I got over myself, got back into my old 2005 lead sled Buick La-Sabre and drove away after about an hour of looking...There just were no turn ons sitting there for me. Now don't get me wrong, there were a lot of nice pieces of sheet-metal there, just not in the mood for car payments and the really, the hassle of all the sales pitch junk...hey, I'm 71, older, somewhat wiser and my time zone for real cars,,was the 60's.... Now where were the Chevelles and GTO's......yes the 60s are gone .I going to play some golf today...
 
Go get yourself a classic muscle car. A really good rebuild doesn't seem to cost all that much relative to a new car.

Here ya go: '70 Chevelle SS 396, frame off restoration. $40k. (I know that might be a bit much, but you did mention the $50k number in the OP) '70 Chevelle
 
If you finance a car ask your kids to pay for that "Dead Man's insurance"....you know, the policy which pays off your car upon your untimely death.

If you hate your kids you can bequeath your car to someone/something and not tell 'em before hand. Kira
 
Just the charger v6 is a nice car can be had for low 20's NEW. likely mid - high teens just a couple years old. Looks like you could "hop it up" a little for not much outlay if the feeling comes over you.

Then My neighbor has a late 60's Dart GT convertible white with black top. Bet that's a decent driver and easy to work on.

Lemmme know if you see any satellite sebrings from 74 or 75. for under 2 grand growing weeds.

Id love to plunk a 360 4BBl in there with a Chrysler 4 speed stick.
 
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Did you throw your cane at any of the car salespeople?
No kidding, good grief
crazy.gif
 
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
Yes, it was a search and destroy mission, sort of...It was my turn to get into sticker shock--again.

So, here we are- looking out over 5 dealerships of assorted sheet metal--acres of fun awaited me.

There were greys,blacks,whites,a few reds and a blue or two. Large SUV's were into the 50k range and small ones at the 25k to 35k range....I got over myself, got back into my old 2005 lead sled Buick La-Sabre and drove away after about an hour of looking...There just were no turn ons sitting there for me. Now don't get me wrong, there were a lot of nice pieces of sheet-metal there, just not in the mood for car payments and the really, the hassle of all the sales pitch junk...hey, I'm 71, older, somewhat wiser and my time zone for real cars,,was the 60's.... Now where were the Chevelles and GTO's......yes the 60s are gone .I going to play some golf today...


There is a semi-famous quote: "I used to be with 'it' until they change what 'it' was. Then what I was with wasn't "it" and what was 'it' seems weird and scary."

Well, you have now been exposed to a market no-longer focused on your needs.

Finally, FINALLY!!!! Manufacturers are no longer pandering to the boomer market whole-hog. There is a reason that a lot of that sheet-metal, marketing/finance, sales spproach is not speaking to you because for the first time in your life, the manufacturers are not catering to your demographic wholesale. From 1964 to about 2014/now boomers were the largest market. Not to be overly morbid, but now, they know that your next care is likely to be you last (boomers are not buying as many cars anymore). Most manufacturer now want to avoid the "90-00s Cadillac problem" when a brand's core customers die-off and the brand has no natural successor. That is why Buick has a "not your grandpa's car" commercial. Sure, there might be a few models lingering for the old (Corvette, etc) but most manufacturer can sell a boomer a millennial-targeted car easier than selling a millennial a boomer-targeted car. See Kia Soul for example. However, they are not able to sell millennials you old-style Buick (or any boomer focused car). Worse, they can sell millennials GTOs for many reasons. Comparatively, boomers were riding the wave of success built by the prior generation. A part-time "summer" job could pay for college, a house and living expenses without a loan back in the 60s. If I was going to pay for my "home, living expenses, and college" without taking out a loan, I would need to make $65,000-70,000 a year... definitely the cost upon millennial is greater so when manufacturers are selling to the debt-strapped younger folks, they need vehicles that are generally "cheaper" (and finance rates are cheaper so you see a push to that market) but new sheet-metal also check more boxes while out-competing used options. Thus the rise of the compact and sub-compact crossover. Millennial do not have the cash for multiple vehicles so one vehicle might have to do all duties. The modern designs are starting to look at designs from the 1910-30s for good reason.

FYI, if you are curious, I worked for one of the big 3 as a subcontractor when in school (2nd year of my PhD) to identify boomer/millennial buying trends in 2010. This big 3 player was very weary about transitioning to a post-boomer marketplace. I also had all of my Grad education paid for by various research project (but still racked up debt while living on ramen noodles). Between $12-18K as a yearly salary and almost free tuition was not enough. Anyway, tangent enough.

Finally, cars are not all that much more expensive now than what they were in the 60s. Ok, the number is bigger but compared to inflation, not so much. If you take in how much more advanced the vehicle is now compared to what it was, it is a huge bargain.

A base bone-stock "mustang" at $2,400 would be $18.3K. $22K for the V8. For a "small-for-the-time" "youth car" it is still "average cost" today. You might say that the Mustang is now $10,000 more considering inflation today and you would be correct. However,the Mustang is no longer a cheap-youthful car. It is more of a semi-GT/luxury car now. It may be more similar to the '66 Thunderbird than the old '66 stangs as it sits a higher "pedestal" in Fords lineup. So the '66 MSRP for a Thunderbird of $4,600 would be $35,000. Boom. Tada. Makes sense. The $18-23K area of the old Mustang is now occupied by the Fiesta ST and Focus ST. Heck the Focus/Falcon almost sit in identical price-points considering inflation.
 
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
Yes, it was a search and destroy mission, sort of...It was my turn to get into sticker shock--again.

So, here we are- looking out over 5 dealerships of assorted sheet metal--acres of fun awaited me.

There were greys,blacks,whites,a few reds and a blue or two. Large SUV's were into the 50k range and small ones at the 25k to 35k range....I got over myself, got back into my old 2005 lead sled Buick La-Sabre and drove away after about an hour of looking...There just were no turn ons sitting there for me. Now don't get me wrong, there were a lot of nice pieces of sheet-metal there, just not in the mood for car payments and the really, the hassle of all the sales pitch junk...hey, I'm 71, older, somewhat wiser and my time zone for real cars,,was the 60's.... Now where were the Chevelles and GTO's......yes the 60s are gone .I going to play some golf today...


There is a semi-famous quote: "I used to be with 'it' until they change what 'it' was. Then what I was with wasn't "it" and what was 'it' seems weird and scary."

Well, you have now been exposed to a market no-longer focused on your needs.

Finally, FINALLY!!!! Manufacturers are no longer pandering to the boomer market whole-hog. There is a reason that a lot of that sheet-metal, marketing/finance, sales spproach is not speaking to you because for the first time in your life, the manufacturers are not catering to your demographic wholesale. From 1964 to about 2014/now boomers were the largest market. Not to be overly morbid, but now, they know that your next care is likely to be you last (boomers are not buying as many cars anymore). Most manufacturer now want to avoid the "90-00s Cadillac problem" when a brand's core customers die-off and the brand has no natural successor. That is why Buick has a "not your grandpa's car" commercial. Sure, there might be a few models lingering for the old (Corvette, etc) but most manufacturer can sell a boomer a millennial-targeted car easier than selling a millennial a boomer-targeted car. See Kia Soul for example. However, they are not able to sell millennials you old-style Buick (or any boomer focused car). Worse, they can sell millennials GTOs for many reasons. Comparatively, boomers were riding the wave of success built by the prior generation. A part-time "summer" job could pay for college, a house and living expenses without a loan back in the 60s. If I was going to pay for my "home, living expenses, and college" without taking out a loan, I would need to make $65,000-70,000 a year... definitely the cost upon millennial is greater so when manufacturers are selling to the debt-strapped younger folks, they need vehicles that are generally "cheaper" (and finance rates are cheaper so you see a push to that market) but new sheet-metal also check more boxes while out-competing used options. Thus the rise of the compact and sub-compact crossover. Millennial do not have the cash for multiple vehicles so one vehicle might have to do all duties. The modern designs are starting to look at designs from the 1910-30s for good reason.

FYI, if you are curious, I worked for one of the big 3 as a subcontractor when in school (2nd year of my PhD) to identify boomer/millennial buying trends in 2010. This big 3 player was very weary about transitioning to a post-boomer marketplace. I also had all of my Grad education paid for by various research project (but still racked up debt while living on ramen noodles). Between $12-18K as a yearly salary and almost free tuition was not enough. Anyway, tangent enough.

Finally, cars are not all that much more expensive now than what they were in the 60s. Ok, the number is bigger but compared to inflation, not so much. If you take in how much more advanced the vehicle is now compared to what it was, it is a huge bargain.

A base bone-stock "mustang" at $2,400 would be $18.3K. $22K for the V8. For a "small-for-the-time" "youth car" it is still "average cost" today. You might say that the Mustang is now $10,000 more considering inflation today and you would be correct. However,the Mustang is no longer a cheap-youthful car. It is more of a semi-GT/luxury car now. It may be more similar to the '66 Thunderbird than the old '66 stangs as it sits a higher "pedestal" in Fords lineup. So the '66 MSRP for a Thunderbird of $4,600 would be $35,000. Boom. Tada. Makes sense. The $18-23K area of the old Mustang is now occupied by the Fiesta ST and Focus ST. Heck the Focus/Falcon almost sit in identical price-points considering inflation.
Great write up, I agree....my age group is not in the buy one every 2 years,,,lol
 
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
Great write up, I agree....my age group is not in the buy one every 2 years,,,lol


Actually, boomers are the two-four year purchaser... or really those that leased. Now that market it the leasing demographic. Leasing is more popular for those wanting a luxury-type vehicle (which could be any new car really). Younger buyers may lease more because of a lack of initial capital or that they need something newer within a given monthly budget. If you "need" a safe family vehicle for a small family, minivans or kid-friendly wagons (aka SUVs) are now 30K plus so if you are strapped, you lease if you want new or buy at $20K for a lightly used option. The "new" market has split so you have both more long-term purchasers, more short-term leasers. Puts manufacturers in an odd spot. Kinda an odd market. The "used" market is now that middle market. They will NOT buy new. One of the recommendations coming out of my group was that manufacturers needed to make good "used" cars. Threw the execs for a loop because "Manufacturer A" does not make used cars. Then we explained they need to make their own supply of used vehicles via leases, fleet, and CPO tactics. Enterprise and Carmax lives on this tactic so why wouldn't a Big3 company look at this as a revenue stream as it could control the supply. At the end of the day, the new entry "affordable, low-priced car" is now the 3-5year old used car rather than the little econobox. Most buyers would rather spend $15K on a mid-level used vehicle than an lower level new vehicle. Much less used-averse and most now expect near trouble-free mileage between 60K-150K miles.
 
Here's a problem I see with modern car people. and I mean the car mags and reviewers.
I read a lot of reviews so insert any family sedan name and they knock it because it isn't a canyon carver.
People that buy Camrys, Accords, Fusions and such are looking for reliable quiet smooth riding cars.
 
Before I ended up with the 2er I considered the following cars:
Boss 302
Camaro SS 1LE
Cayman S
Challenger SRT8
Elise
Golf R
GTI
Fiesta ST
Focus RS
Miata Club
M3(E46)
Mustang GT Perf Pkg.
WRX STI
135is
335is
370Z NISMO
Not a boring appliance in the bunch- and four countries of origin to choose from. I also like classic musclecars and sports cars, but the golden age of performance cars is right now.
 
Originally Posted By: pandus13
FutureDoc,
2 nice write-ups
:-))


Thanks. I lived in that world for a while. Rogue academics are mercenaries with spreadsheets and text books. Still kinda do that same work but not on the manufacturer/marketing/sales side. I am now feeling that I am becoming dated with my exposure to the industry as it is changing again...
 
Originally Posted By: marine65
Here's a problem I see with modern car people. and I mean the car mags and reviewers.
I read a lot of reviews so insert any family sedan name and they knock it because it isn't a canyon carver.
People that buy Camrys, Accords, Fusions and such are looking for reliable quiet smooth riding cars.


I see that. I think a lot of the press only focuses on "hardcore/the most/ or best-est". Unfortunately, its all the same coverage the same Dodge Demon tripe and chase those wheels that sell issues/clicks. So if you are not bringing 500hp (or more), hard-core handling, or trackday equipment, it get lost. You can't be a jack-of-trades driver's car at an affordable price.

They do trash the "Cute-Utes"/Crossovers and that is well deserved. On the other hand, you can make a case that the "driver's car" is in an extinction phase right now. Models are either very old on the vine or have been nixed. We really have not had a new "driver's" entry to the market in several years compared to dozens of cute-uts.

I don't think that the journalist pan the Accord or Fusion. Those are good cars with decent characteristics but they are not canyon carvers and they get called out of they ar e"grounded to the ground". Camry... ehhh, "getting better" is the only real way to save face. You still see those folks praise the Mazda3 and like. You even have a lot of praise about the ST twins bringing the hot back to the hatch. However, The current Accord Coupe would never be a true "Canyon Carver" (which is a shame as some of the former Honda coupes were true carver). Even good sportscars/GT get called out for not being "hardcore" enough.

But here is another issue: Most manufactures are not investing in driving dynamics (Ford, Mazda, and maybe GM might be the only ones pursuing this area). Even BMW retreated from the dynamics side compared to a decade/two ago. Honda abandoned it so much that I tell anyone with an "old Honda" looking for a new Honda to go get a Mazda. Sure, they will "claim" that their vehicle is superior there and you have a few decent options but most buyers are looking for tech, ride height, cubic footage other other things that cost a manufacture money. So why add an IRS on a small car when the buy might care more about how well it pairs with their phone? Manufactuers know they have to hit a pricepoint and offer certain thing... and guess what happens. By-by IRS, a tuned steering/suspension, vented rear discs, sticky tires and other things so they can offer Nav and mobile-hotspots. It is all about where they invest money.

The driver's car is dying and I think you see that a lot of journalist (which tend to be "drivers") tend to take it out on the bland offerings. Just because you are the mid-sized grocery-getter does not give the vehicle an excuse to be a bad drive. You can have reliable, smooth canyon carvers family sedans. That is what made BMW, Datsun 510s/Early Maximas, 80s/90s Honda. Even the "boring" vehicles have gotten more boring for the most part and the fun vehicles are now cross-badged engineered so there is even less choice.
 
Originally Posted By: marine65
Here's a problem I see with modern car people. and I mean the car mags and reviewers.
I read a lot of reviews so insert any family sedan name and they knock it because it isn't a canyon carver.
People that buy Camrys, Accords, Fusions and such are looking for reliable quiet smooth riding cars.


The thing is, 99% of the people that buy anodyne family sedans aren't enthusiasts- and they don't read automotive magazines.
 
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
I got over myself, got back into my old 2005 lead sled Buick La-Sabre and drove away after about an hour of looking...There just were no turn ons sitting there for me. Now don't get me wrong, there were a lot of nice pieces of sheet-metal there, just not in the mood for car payments and the really,

Heh... I'm much younger than you, although not exactly young, and this describes my approach as well. Every now and then, I'll go out and test drive some new cars with the intention of possibly buying one, and every time I come away not impressed enough to actually pull the trigger. Plus the thought of a nice chunk of change leaving my bank account just does not sound all that appealing, all for a car that's going to mostly sit in the garage and depreciate, as I drive very little because I work from home.

But, I have not test driven that Charger SRT yet, so we'll see.
smile.gif
 
From time to time I crank up the Sportster HD and go for a 100 mile spin.....More fun then most cars, lots of power, well all I need anyway. That feeling of freedom to feel the world go by.....again. Well its a motorcyle thing.
 
Yeah, I got rid of my bike 2 years ago. I'm hoping some American muscle car with its brute force can help fill the void, at least partially.
smile.gif
 
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