That darn Honda cam seal again

[PandaBear]

Anyone who've worked on a Honda / Acura engine probably know what I'm talking about. The plastic plug that plug up 1 of the 2 front cam outlet (the other being the distributor).

I replaced mine a few years ago with an aftermarket aluminum one and is now leaking. Everyone was telling me to go aftermarket before because the OEM one is plastic and do not last long. It seems like the aftermarket I got wasn't that durable either, probably due to low quality plastic used or my poor installation.

So I'm planning to redo it tomorrow, but instead of buying a new aluminum one I would like to either replace the O ring or use gasket maker. Where can I buy o ring and what material should I choose for this environment (similar to valve cover gasket i guess)? If I couldn't find it, can I use gasket maker?

Also would using both o ring and gasket maker / dresser be a cause for leak? I think I was using both before.

 

[Nukeman7]

If you have the aluminum crescent shaped plug, it can be reused if you degrease it 100% with carb/brake cleaner solvent. When you re-install it, you must coat all mating edges with Permatex ULTRA BLUE RTV: ULTRA BLUE which is available at WalMart/Advance Auto/AutoZone. Don't use the regular (i.e., non-Ultra) blue RTV because it won't last more than a year or two. I installed a few with Ultra Blue more than 5 years ago and they are still leak free. Some sites recommend using the thinner ULTRA GRAY RTV, but I prefer the denser ULTRA BLUE version. Don't use an O-ring with it or it will leak.

 

[PandaBear]

Actually the car I have got the cylindrical plug, not half crescent one (as seen on the borrowed photo on the internet).

The black is the OEM plastic plug, the right one is the aluminum one I got online. I am suspecting that the o rings are bad and want to see if I can use gasket maker.

I guess the theory is the same as the half crescent one? Just clean the mating surface with part cleaner and then apply gasket maker?

 

[Nukeman7]

That is clearly different from the crescent shaped one. I think you may have to replace both O-rings to get a good seal. Try going to Lowes or Ace Hardware and checking the plumbing supply section for a comparable size. If you cannot find one, try using the ULTRA BLUE sealant.

 

[mechtech2]

Originally Posted By: Nukeman7
If you have the aluminum crescent shaped plug, it can be reused if you degrease it 100% with carb/brake cleaner solvent. When you re-install it, you must coat all mating edges with Permatex ULTRA BLUE RTV: ULTRA BLUE which is available at WalMart/Advance Auto/AutoZone. Don't use the regular (i.e., non-Ultra) blue RTV because it won't last more than a year or two. I installed a few with Ultra Blue more than 5 years ago and they are still leak free. Some sites recommend using the thinner ULTRA GRAY RTV, but I prefer the denser ULTRA BLUE version. Don't use an O-ring with it or it will leak.


A good RTV with CLEAN surfaces will fix the problem.
BTW, Ultra Grey is thicker than blue.
If they are shooting at you, you can actually clean the outside surface and spread it on, then let it dry. it will also stop the leak.

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Anyone who've worked on a Honda / Acura engine probably know what I'm talking about. The plastic plug that plug up 1 of the 2 front cam outlet (the other being the distributor).

I replaced mine a few years ago with an aftermarket aluminum one and is now leaking. Everyone was telling me to go aftermarket before because the OEM one is plastic and do not last long. It seems like the aftermarket I got wasn't that durable either, probably due to low quality plastic used or my poor installation.

The whole problem has nothing to do with OE or aftermarket. Honda has known about this problem for a LONG time, and has had a solution for a long time as well. The solution involves the use of Permatex Ultra Grey or similar.

PM me if you want a copy of Honda Canada's TSB on this issue. It has instructions on how to implement the official fix (which I have used myself).

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: Tegger
PM me if you want a copy of Honda Canada's TSB on this issue. It has instructions on how to implement the official fix (which I have used myself).

But I'm not sure I remember how to tell if I have a PM...

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: Tegger
PM me if you want a copy of Honda Canada's TSB on this issue. It has instructions on how to implement the official fix (which I have used myself).

But I'm not sure I remember how to tell if I have a PM...




Next to the "My Stuff" tab it will be flashing red and white. Click on it and choose messages.

 

[PandaBear]

Thanks. PM sent

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Thanks. PM sent

I got it, and I think I replied properly. you need to send me your email address so I can send you a copy of that Honda TSB.

The OE plug does NOT have an o-ring, it's just one-piece of rubber that's formed around a steel tube. In any case, the problem appears to be shrinkage and hardening of the rubber over time, combined with heat-cycling and vibration. The Honda solution involves application of Ultra Grey or similar RTV. The TSB describes where and how to put the RTV.

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Thanks. PM sent

Check your mail!

 

[PandaBear]

Just took out the old plug, yup, oil is leaking pass the 2 O rings. What I found also is that the gasket dressing I used didn't stick to the aluminum parts as I expected it to, and sort of just "melted" and stay at the bottom as residue goo.

I also found out that I did something very stupid. I have a tube of Permatex Gasket Dressing and Flange Sealant, and I think that it is different than the Permatex RTV Blue that people were asking me to use. Both are blue but the Gasket Dressing doesn't seems to cure even months after I use it with the valve cover gaskets' corner for another job.

The O rings did get hard over 2 years, and the ebay vendor did send me a warranty replacement. If it leaks again I'd probably just use something else next time.

Off to the parts store to get the right sealant...

 

[mechtech2]

Permatex come in #1 and #2. One dries hard, the other stays somewhat pliable.
Not made for rubber seals, though.

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Off to the parts store to get the right sealant...

The right stuff is Permatex Ultra Black or Ultra Grey. And follow that TSB to the letter!!

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
Permatex come in #1 and #2. One dries hard, the other stays somewhat pliable.
Not made for rubber seals, though.


#1 and #2 seems to be gasket sealant and the Ultra Black / Blue seems to be RTV Silicone, different stuff I guess?

Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Off to the parts store to get the right sealant...

The right stuff is Permatex Ultra Black or Ultra Grey. And follow that TSB to the letter!!


Is Ultra Black and Ultra Blue the same thing? The spec looks almost identical between the 2.

 

[garlicbreadman]

my cam seal never leaked on my integra. i replaced it at 80k with another oem one since the valve cover gasket was off. 125k now and perfect!


the key is cleaning off cam seal seating surfaces really well and adding a little bit of honda bond and of course torqueing down the cam seal holder to oem specs

i use OEM cam seals.

 

[Tegger]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Is Ultra Black and Ultra Blue the same thing? The spec looks almost identical between the 2.

Ultra Grey is the closest to Hondabond, and has the highest oil-resistance of any Permatex RTV's. Ultra Black is the next step down, with slightly less oil-resistance. Ultra Blue has lower oil-resistance than Grey or Black.

I already had some Black so I used that.