Tesla’s Musk Says U.S. Electricity Production Needs to Double to Power Transition to EV Vehicles

[Trav]

I feel that if EU won’t succeed, with this dedication, to be CO2 neutral by 2050, no one will. That would be a bummer. It’s going to be interesting to see if we are burning money for nothing, or if it’s going to be a success story after all

I remember all this CO2 reduction business before it became a "greenhouse gas", it wasn't until they figured out they could use it to base vehicle and other taxes on they pushed the agenda. It worked as it was expected it to, people accept this as settled science when in fact it was/is far from it (oh the heresy), in fact many legit scientist find the whole thing a hoax based on the science alone without an agenda.
I don't know if it is or not but with so much money being made on it the truth will never be really known IMO.

 

[thastinger]

I’d like to raise two green countries from the map you provided:
-Norway has mountains, and they get fairly much rain also => They got a lot of free hydroelectricity. What Norway can do is to buy excess wind electricity with low price from Denmark/Netherlands when wind is blowing (a lot of wind power there), and open dams and sells hydroelectricity with high price to Denmark/Netherlands when wind is not blowing. Excellent business! Did you know that last month only less than 5% of new passenger cars sold in Norway were purely ICE? Pure EVs were 77% of the cars sold, and the rest were hybrids. Norway is the number 1 in the world in EVs. This is possible with a really generous subvention by the government (of course won’t last forever). Norway also plans to ban new ICE-only passenger cars in 2025, as the first country in the world.
-Iceland. The whole island is basically a top of a volcano with is about to burst. This means fossil free, and cost free, geothermal energy 30% + hydroelectricity 70%. Thanks to this very cheap (and green) energy, they can have energy intensive aluminium smelters, which produce in this tiny country only slightly less aluminium than USA.

We have that here as well. Within our 50 country union...we have california, they import 40% of their energy from neighboring countries because those countries have hydro resources which come from the Colorado river. California uses a 3 tier pricing system, based upon consumption. It is the only place on Earth that a commodity is priced higher the more you use of it...anyways, our country of california gets to profess to our other 49 countries how "green" they are, while robbing surrounding countries of natural resources (power and fresh water) originating within their countries borders...so we aren't that different.

 

[thastinger]

I remember all this CO2 reduction business before it became a "greenhouse gas", it wasn't until they figured out they could use it to base vehicle and other taxes on they pushed the agenda. It worked as it was expected it to, people accept this as settled science when in fact it was/is far from it (oh the heresy), in fact many legit scientist find the whole thing a hoax based on the science alone without an agenda.
I don't know if it is or not but with so much money being made on it the truth will never be really known IMO.

Ice core samples say that carbon levels are at near Earth history lows but you can take slices of data from historical past to spin any narrative you desire. Wile it is true that CO2 levels dipped to 150PPM pre industrial age, now they are 400PPM post industrial age, but 25K years ago they were 10,000PPM. You could spin that to tell any story you wanted, ranging from "humans did it all" to "humans can't impact it either positively or negatively"

 

[javacontour]

My hybrid thoughts are we need a small V6 as the 4 cylinder models do not handle interstate speeds efficiently.
Take most models today and after 65 mph they start getting about the same mpg as normally aspirated cars. After 65mph they are not very relaxed like a v6.


Thoughts?

My thoughts are I had no problem in a 1.25L naturally aspirated Ford Fiesta in Italy keeping up with 130kph plus traffic on the autostrada with two people and luggage in the car. The A/C was on as it was mid July.

It’s not the size of the engine but is it optimized for the job.

But here in America, people won’t buy such cars.

 

[tcp71]

One thing to keep in mind in all this: regardless of emissions in Europe and North America, without equal commitment from China and India, all the hand wringing and self flagellation will still not have enough effect. I see it all the time here in Canada: The youth are outraged at what Canada is doing to the Arctic. Protesting here, etc. The reality is that climate change is GLOBAL and even if all of Canada's (3% of the worlds) emissions stopped immediately, it will do nothing, absolutely nothing to stop the arctic thaw. Go protest in Beijing and Delhi because doing it in Calgary will have no impact at all.

 

[paulri]

FWIW, my Highlander Hybrid (3.3L 6 cyl) gets 28 MPG when I go 60-65 MPH on freeways with a touch of city driving. 10 mph more and it drops 1 MPG.

The EPA page for this car (with and without hybrid) says 25 MPG highway for the hybrid version, and 22 highway for the non-hybrid (both 4wd, both 6 cyl).

The Accord hybrid with the turbo 4 seems to do just fine,.

Its hard to get the 3.0L 6 into 4 mileage territory at highway speed.

My RX400 didnt do appreciably better than the non hybrid on the freeway.

 

[UncleDave]

FWIW, my Highlander Hybrid (3.3L 6 cyl) gets 28 MPG when I go 60-65 MPH on freeways with a touch of city driving. 10 mph more and it drops 1 MPG.

I could eeek out 28 at 60 on flat level ground, problem is for me that there is not such thing the 60, or the flat level.
I typically do 75-80 on I5 on 7 hour freeway trips I got low 20's which is pretty good for an SUV at that speed punching a big hole in the air, but nothing like the high 30's low 40's the accord will get.

 

[IcarusLSC]

People have been saying it LONG before Musk was making EVs....

 

[finmile]

One thing to keep in mind in all this: regardless of emissions in Europe and North America, without equal commitment from China and India, all the hand wringing and self flagellation will still not have enough effect. I see it all the time here in Canada: The youth are outraged at what Canada is doing to the Arctic. Protesting here, etc. The reality is that climate change is GLOBAL and even if all of Canada's (3% of the worlds) emissions stopped immediately, it will do nothing, absolutely nothing to stop the arctic thaw. Go protest in Beijing and Delhi because doing it in Calgary will have no impact at all.

View attachment 73654

We have exactly the same thing here in Finland. Those who are against CO2 reductions ask what does it help if we 0.07% of the world population cut emissions if others won’t do their share. Let’s wait that China does it’s move first. Well it doesn’t work that way.

Besides this climate change fight creates new business. Just recently SSAB in Sweden/Finland created world’s first CO2-free steel. And market for that will be huge in the future. It would be foolish to close eyes for these new businesses in denial. Even China knows that, hence the are investing heavily for example for EVs, which will be huge market also in the future. So, you can save the planet AND make business at the same time. I’m happy to see even Ford sees this opportunity and invests accordingly.

And yes, we also have young people in rallies on the streets shouting that ”we are not doing enough”. In Europe, really?

 

[loneryder]

Musk, to his credit, finally acknowledges the elephant in the room.

It was well known in the electric industry in the 1980s that the US was on the knife's edge of electrical demand outstripping supply. That was the real reason for energy-saving mandates in lighting and household appliances. Those and various recessions that reduced electrical demand bought us time. The new power generation plants that have been built were mainly to replace coal-fueled plants with little net gain for the grid.

I have witnessed rolling blackouts on cold days, and this was in Virginia and northeastern North Carolina in the early 1990s. Demand for electricity for heat was so high that Virginia Power (now Dominion Energy) had no choice.

The savings from energy mandates, meanwhile, have been offset by extra power demand for business and home computers, gaming systems, and connected devices. One huge power sink is computers being used for Bitcoin mining. I believe the threat to power grids from that alone is a reason some countries are outlawing cryptocurrencies.

Lots of people have tried to warn that a mass switch to EVs that must be plugged in to recharge would be a disaster for the grid. Finally we have acknowledgement. If anyone will listen, that is. Too many of the people pushing EVs are technologically illiterate. They believe that they can plug in something and the outlet will always have power. Musk is warning that might not be true.

Do you work at the Nuclear PP

 

[ripcord]

One thing to keep in mind in all this: regardless of emissions in Europe and North America, without equal commitment from China and India, all the hand wringing and self flagellation will still not have enough effect. I see it all the time here in Canada: The youth are outraged at what Canada is doing to the Arctic. Protesting here, etc. The reality is that climate change is GLOBAL and even if all of Canada's (3% of the worlds) emissions stopped immediately, it will do nothing, absolutely nothing to stop the arctic thaw. Go protest in Beijing and Delhi because doing it in Calgary will have no impact at all.

It's a replacement religion for most of these folks who are out there waving signs and chanting slogans, so expecting rationality on the subject is a bridge too far.

 

[loneryder]

I remember all this CO2 reduction business before it became a "greenhouse gas", it wasn't until they figured out they could use it to base vehicle and other taxes on they pushed the agenda. It worked as it was expected it to, people accept this as settled science when in fact it was/is far from it (oh the heresy), in fact many legit scientist find the whole thing a hoax based on the science alone without an agenda.
I don't know if it is or not but with so much money being made on it the truth will never be really known IMO.

In WV it now costs $150 a year for your license for a Prius. Owners don’t know if until they go to renew. A Prius uses gas. I wonder what an all electric vehicle will be.

 

[redbone3]

We need to standardize on a small nuclear power plant with federal approvals. Then the feds can override local regs and install as many of that approved design as are needed. Probably have to use thorium as the fissionable material. That would be an "infrastructure" bill I would support.

 

[oil pan 4]

One thing to keep in mind in all this: regardless of emissions in Europe and North America, without equal commitment from China and India, all the hand wringing and self flagellation will still not have enough effect. I see it all the time here in Canada: The youth are outraged at what Canada is doing to the Arctic. Protesting here, etc. The reality is that climate change is GLOBAL and even if all of Canada's (3% of the worlds) emissions stopped immediately, it will do nothing, absolutely nothing to stop the arctic thaw. Go protest in Beijing and Delhi because doing it in Calgary will have no impact at all.

View attachment 73654

2017, the year I got my coal furnace. I'm one of those dots (during the winter).

 

[ZeeOSix]

In order to build new infrastructure for increased power production to feed the ever increasing power being consumed by EVs, there will have to be a substantial increase in the cost of power to the consumers in order to pay for it. If EVs are going to drive that need, then EVs need to chip in as a big source of funding the cost.

At some point they will probably require EVs being charged at home to be on their own dedicated meter and be charged at a higher rate than the power feeding the house. The days of cheap electricity for EV charging (even at home) may not be around forever. And EVs are already being focused on in terms of use taxes (like cost per mile) because of the loss of revenue from gas taxes.

The more EVs that are on the road, the more it's going to cost to operate them. At some point that may become a negative aspect for people to buy an EV.

 

[M56959]

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