Tesla Model 3 vs BMW M3 video

[Trav]

Here ya go. @Trav and @Vercingetorix might be interested in this as well.
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Keryk, the MP3 didn't win a thing it lost to the BMW and even had a Toyota and Honda Civic breathing down its neck, in endurance mode the Tesla was close to getting lapped by the BMW, you cant deny that. Those are hard facts. You like your car and that's fine but showing pictures every day is not impressing anyone except fan boys and people who don't know any better, you may as well post Toyota Camry pictures which are okay but nothing to get lathered up over IMO.

 

[Torrid]

Keryk, the MP3 didn't win a thing it lost to the BMW and even had a Toyota and Honda Civic breathing down its neck, in endurance mode the Tesla was close to getting lapped by the BMW, you cant deny that. Those are hard facts. You like your car and that's fine but showing pictures every day is not impressing anyone except fan boys and people who don't know any better, you may as well post Toyota Camry pictures which are okay but nothing to get lathered up over IMO.

If it bothers you that much there are EV free sections of the site too.

 

[Torrid]

He likes the iPad. So do I. The BMW will get there real soon. The Neue Klasse will be a tech marvel I'm sure.
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Look familiar? iPad-ish maybe?
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Interior is pretty interesting. I think I just need to see more of this thing in person when it exists. I didn't like the Model 3 at the first 15-20 glances and I was downright mean to the Model Y styling for a very long time.

 

[Torrid]

Cammisa recommended FR86 for track use. That says everything.

Cammisa has a hard time recommending anything that isn't a Volkswagen. He's not always going to get it right.

I trust his judgement way before yours.

 

[OVERKILL]

This thread is a lot like somebody doing a range test with a Savage 110 Precision and an Accuracy International AXSR and the Savage being within 0.1 MOA of the AI rifle (that is 10x the price). MOA isn't the full story, just like a lap time, but it's an interesting metric. Just like an $11,000 rifle isn't the most practical choice to hunt deer, an M3 is not the most practical daily driver, but there's a pedigree there that guarantees long-term value along with the little details that set the higher cost product apart when you start looking beyond just the initial performance.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Keryk, the MP3 didn't win a thing it lost to the BMW and even had a Toyota and Honda Civic breathing down its neck, in endurance mode the Tesla was close to getting lapped by the BMW, you cant deny that. Those are hard facts. You like your car and that's fine but showing pictures every day is not impressing anyone except fan boys and people who don't know any better, you may as well post Toyota Camry pictures which are okay but nothing to get lathered up over IMO.

The video showed the M3 was 1.5 seconds faster around the track for 1 lap. They credited that to the M3P tires, not the cars.
The video showed the M3 was clearly superior in multiple laps which makes perfect sense; the M3P throttles the power to conserve battery in track mode. ICE holds a strong advantage over distance.
The video clearly showed the M3 is the better track car, no doubt. It is built for the track and does well as a daily as well.
The video chose the M3P as the better overall car based on what they considered most owners use cases.
It's just that simple. Both cars are awesome.

You are right; the Honda and Toyota (BMW) were close to the top cars on this track for 1 lap. For multiple laps they likely would have been faster than the M3P. So?

 

[Torrid]

This thread is a lot like somebody doing a range test with a Savage 110 Precision and an Accuracy International AXSR and the Savage being within 0.1 MOA of the AI rifle (that is 10x the price). MOA isn't the full story, just like a lap time, but it's an interesting metric. Just like an $11,000 rifle isn't the most practical choice to hunt deer, an M3 is not the most practical daily driver, but there's a pedigree there that guarantees long-term value along with the little details that set the higher cost product apart when you start looking beyond just the initial performance.

Yes. A member here can't seem to look it as objectively as this though. One has to be excrement and the other was delivered by the hands of Jesus himself.

 

[JeffKeryk]

This thread is a lot like somebody doing a range test with a Savage 110 Precision and an Accuracy International AXSR and the Savage being within 0.1 MOA of the AI rifle (that is 10x the price). MOA isn't the full story, just like a lap time, but it's an interesting metric. Just like an $11,000 rifle isn't the most practical choice to hunt deer, an M3 is not the most practical daily driver, but there's a pedigree there that guarantees long-term value along with the little details that set the higher cost product apart when you start looking beyond just the initial performance.

Sure, it depends on what you want. Both are awesome and have their place.
One reason I would not buy a Taycan Turbo is I often loan my cars out; when you get to $150 large and above, that starts to get scary. Feeling free to loan my stuff out is a key component of my use case.

Long term value is a funny thing. My 68 Corvette is worth far more than what it cost new. However the total cost of ownership is far greater than its current value. I had to send it to WA for my BIL to store it in his large garage. You can't leave something like that outside.

Bottom line is, cars rarely offer long term value; long term ownership is a labor of love. If they did offer long term value, everyone would buy them.

 

[OVERKILL]

Sure, it depends on what you want. Both are awesome and have their place.
One reason I would not buy a Taycan Turbo is I often loan my cars out; when you get to $150 large and above, that starts to get scary. Feeling free to loan my stuff out is a key component of my use case.

Long term value is a funny thing. My 68 Corvette is worth far more than what it cost new. However the total cost of ownership is far greater than its current value. I had to send it to WA for my BIL to store it in his large garage. You can't leave something like that outside.

Bottom line is, cars rarely offer long term value; long term ownership is a labor of love. If they did offer long term value, everyone would buy them.

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My point is more in-line with a @JHZR2's, the BMW will always have reasonably strong value, due to its prestige and lower production figures, while a commodity car, and it doesn't have to be a Tesla, it could be a Corolla, Civic or Crown Vic, won't.

Even using a Corvette as an example, a 1968 Corvette base with the 327, in good condition (#3) according to Hagerty, is worth $21,500. The 427 cars are worth more, depending on the engine code. This ranges anywhere from $32,300 (L36) to $333,000 (L88). If we look up a 1968 Ferrari 330 GTS in #3 condition, it's worth anywhere from $640,000 (base) to $39.1 million (GTO SII). A Lamborghini Miura is worth $1.65 million. A 1988 BMW M3 base (2DR) is worth $67,700, while a 1988 Corvette base is worth $10,800.

The closer you get to "appliance" (mass produced, high sales uptake) the lower the long term value is going to be and the lower the value floor is going to be when it does bottom out. With most limited production cars, this is a U-shaped curve where the car depreciates, then goes back up as it gets older and good examples become harder to find. Rarer trims are impacted by this even more. '03/04 "Terminator" Mustangs are a good example of this.

 

[edyvw]

Yes. A member here can't seem to look it as objectively as this though. One has to be excrement and the other was delivered by the hands of Jesus himself.

Of course I can look objectively. When I spend $57k, I know in which department I am shopping.
It is like Sequoia I just bought. I know what I bought. I am not pretending I am driving $100-120k Lexus or Land Cruiser from that generation.
It seems to me you have a problem with your purchase and looking for confirmation. I am not intending to buy Tesla or that M3. It is AWD (not real M3) and it doesn’t have stick shift, which is actually slower considerably than M3 AWD with ZF8. But that is absolutely OK with me. Because, unlike with Tesla, I can take M3 in the morning, drive to Aspen over Independence Pass, and come back home good amount of time before dinner.
Trip to Trader’s Joe? Perhaps.

 

[JeffKeryk]

My point is more in-line with a @JHZR2's, the BMW will always have reasonably strong value, due to its prestige and lower production figures, while a commodity car, and it doesn't have to be a Tesla, it could be a Corolla, Civic or Crown Vic, won't.

Even using a Corvette as an example, a 1968 Corvette base with the 327, in good condition (#3) according to Hagerty, is worth $21,500. The 427 cars are worth more, depending on the engine code. This ranges anywhere from $32,300 (L36) to $333,000 (L88). If we look up a 1968 Ferrari 330 GTS in #3 condition, it's worth anywhere from $640,000 (base) to $39.1 million (GTO SII). A Lamborghini Miura is worth $1.65 million. A 1988 BMW M3 base (2DR) is worth $67,700, while a 1988 Corvette base is worth $10,800.

The closer you get to "appliance" (mass produced, high sales uptake) the lower the long term value is going to be and the lower the value floor is going to be when it does bottom out. With most limited production cars, this is a U-shaped curve where the car depreciates, then goes back up as it gets older and good examples become harder to find. Rarer trims are impacted by this even more. '03/04 "Terminator" Mustangs are a good example of this.

Sure, I absolutely get your point. Some cars hold their value better than others. My point is, if you take total cost of ownership into account, very few cars are decent value propositions. What would it cost to save an AC Cobra since 1965?

Cars are consumables. They are all appliances, depending on what they are designed for. If you used a M3 Competition for what it was designed for, or even daily'ed it, it would cost a small fortune to own. If you just garage it, you are getting little value.

Cars, as collectors, are a labor of love. Now, gimme a clean 356 Bathtub!
You want an investment, get a nice index fund. Speculating on a car is a risky deal.

 

[edyvw]

Sure, I absolutely get your point. Some cars hold their value better than others. My point is, if you take total cost of ownership into account, very few cars are decent value propositions. What would it cost to save an AC Cobra since 1965?

Cars are consumables. They are all appliances, depending on what they are designed for. If you used a M3 Competition for what it was designed for, or even daily'ed it, it would cost a small fortune to own. If you just garage it, you are getting little value.

Cars, as collectors, are a labor of love. Now, gimme a clean 356 Bathtub!
You want an investment, get a nice index fund. Speculating on a car is a risky deal.

Why are we talking about any of these cars?
If you talk EV, ID4 is best proposition by that measure. It moves forward, it has decent range, and you get all that for some, what, $199 a month?
But we don’t buy cars that way.

 

[Torrid]

Of course I can look objectively. When I spend $57k, I know in which department I am shopping.
It is like Sequoia I just bought. I know what I bought. I am not pretending I am driving $100-120k Lexus or Land Cruiser from that generation.
It seems to me you have a problem with your purchase and looking for confirmation. I am not intending to buy Tesla or that M3. It is AWD (not real M3) and it doesn’t have stick shift, which is actually slower considerably than M3 AWD with ZF8. But that is absolutely OK with me. Because, unlike with Tesla, I can take M3 in the morning, drive to Aspen over Independence Pass, and come back home good amount of time before dinner.
Trip to Trader’s Joe? Perhaps.

Holy crap, you're capable of some form of rational thought. It only took 10 pages to get there.

You've got to admit there's a lot of compromise from what M used to mean in the M3, especially for it's nuts price point. I don't know if they still make the M2, but that's really the new M3 and this is basically the M5. The M5 became what it is. For some reason everything just has to get bigger and more complicated.

 

[ammolab]

Holy crap, you're capable of some form of rational thought. It only took 10 pages to get there.

You've got to admit there's a lot of compromise from what M used to mean in the M3, especially for it's nuts price point. I don't know if they still make the M2, but that's really the new M3 and this is basically the M5. The M5 became what it is. For some reason everything just has to get bigger and more complicated.

My son just took delivery of a 2025 M2 6speed manual RWD. They still make ‘em!

 

[edyvw]

Holy crap, you're capable of some form of rational thought. It only took 10 pages to get there.

You've got to admit there's a lot of compromise from what M used to mean in the M3, especially for it's nuts price point. I don't know if they still make the M2, but that's really the new M3 and this is basically the M5. The M5 became what it is. For some reason everything just has to get bigger and more complicated.

Really?
The thing is, current M3 AWD is made precisely for people like you.

 

[Torrid]

Really?
The thing is, current M3 AWD is made precisely for people like you.

It obviously doesn't appeal to me. I'm curious how you arrived at that conclusion. That car is basically everything I'm against. Fake noise and torque converter automatics.

 

[edyvw]

It obviously doesn't appeal to me. I'm curious how you arrived at that conclusion. That car is basically everything I'm against. Fake noise and torque converter automatics.

You remind me of those folks in other threads who pitch in on the topic of Corvettes and, somewhere on page 11, say, " My friend has one, but let me tell you about my Camry," arguing it is same thing, just they fool everyone and got it much cheaper.

 

[Torrid]

You remind me of those folks in other threads who pitch in on the topic of Corvettes and, somewhere on page 11, say, " My friend has one, but let me tell you about my Camry," arguing it is same thing, just they fool everyone and got it much cheaper.

Clueless.

 

[ammolab]

It obviously doesn't appeal to me. I'm curious how you arrived at that conclusion. That car is basically everything I'm against. Fake noise and torque converter automatics.

So don’t get AWD! A sweet six-speed manual and rear-wheel drive is standard on the 2025 M3.

 

[Torrid]

So don’t get AWD! A sweet six-speed manual and rear-wheel drive is standard on the 2025 M3.

So no manual and AWD? Unfortunately I think the days of me 2wding it are over. It just doesn’t work for me with driving conditions for a daily.