Tesla Model 2, a $25,000 Tesla

[E365]

Rumor/Report: Tesla planning to cast most (or at least, even more) of this rumored $25,000 car in a single 12,000 ton diecasting machine. This would be the next step in casting technology after the new Model Y gets major cast sections at the front and rear.

Here’s a Tesla patent on basically that. The entire unibody as one cast piece.
https://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/detail.jsf?docId=US248873852&tab=DRAWINGS

https://insideevs.com/news/540924/tesla-12000ton-diecasting-compact-car/


Newest Model Y. Photo Source electrek.co

 

[E365]

More info on casting. Rumor is VW is planning a full-body casting on an upcoming EV too.

 

[JeffKeryk]

My understanding is the Model Y made at Giga Shanghai is structurally superior to the older cars, like mine.
This is due to the rear diecasting process.
Cheaper to manufacture and superior strength. They ride rock solid.

The Model 2 is being engineered at Shanghai and will be built there for world wide distribution.

 

[alarmguy]

Yeah, electric vehicles will be like the modern day Bic lighter vs the old time refillable lighters.
Cheap to make, its just a battery operated motor, costs will come down and someday you will drive to Walmart to buy a new one and drive home.
If it doesnt work right or something wrong with it you will return it or Walmart will send someone to your house to fix whatever it is. 30 day return policy and will be resold as "refurbished" if you do decide to return it.

Not that black and white but pretty darn close to it.

 

[DwightFrye]

What do you do if you have collision damage beyond what can be fixed with the typical paintless dent repair methods ?

Whatever the outcome, the giga press(es) that Tesla has developed and are implementing at their factories are another example of what competitive automakers are going to need in order to further automate and improve manufacturing efficiency on their own assembly lines. And their challenge will be money and time to do that, on top of the money involved to develop batteries and other EV components that are competitive.

 

[PandaBear]

Yeah, electric vehicles will be like the modern day Bic lighter vs the old time refillable lighters.
Cheap to make, its just a battery operated motor, costs will come down and someday you will drive to Walmart to buy a new one and drive home.
If it doesnt work right or something wrong with it you will return it or Walmart will send someone to your house to fix whatever it is. 30 day return policy and will be resold as "refurbished" if you do decide to return it.

Not that black and white but pretty darn close to it.

Don't think so. Walmart won't let you do that to a $8000 flat screen TV today and it won't let you do it to an $8000 EV. The most likely scenario is they may let you lease it easily like a business computer lease, 5 years with a fixed price with warranty, then when you are done they take it back and sell it as off lease online.

Didn't we have it already?

 

[Cujet]

I really like the casting chassis. Many folks think of aluminum (and cast iron) castings as being brittle. Many "techs" have seen cracked transmission housings, oil pans, valve covers and so on. It's infuriating when a bolt "ear" breaks off a casting, ruining the entire part.

However, what people fail to realize is that we can properly cast alloys that perform exactly like the sheet metal alloys. With very similar tensile strength. For example, 2024 T3 has a yield strength of 39Ksi. A cast-able similar alloy is at least 36Ksi. Furthermore, it retains the non brittle nature. Interestingly, due to the nature of these alloys, they are not only ductile, (can be bent into a new shape without cracking) but they are corrosion resistant without surface treatment. They tend to form a surface layer that prevents further corrosion.

I absolutely love composite structures, but I've got to admit, aluminum casting is probably the way to go for a great number of reasons. They can be recycled easily, welded, conduct electricity and can be engineered for perfection.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I really like the casting chassis. Many folks think of aluminum (and cast iron) castings as being brittle. Many "techs" have seen cracked transmission housings, oil pans, valve covers and so on. It's infuriating when a bolt "ear" breaks off a casting, ruining the entire part.

However, what people fail to realize is that we can properly cast alloys that perform exactly like the sheet metal alloys. With very similar tensile strength. For example, 2024 T3 has a yield strength of 39Ksi. A cast-able similar alloy is at least 36Ksi. Furthermore, it retains the non brittle nature. Interestingly, due to the nature of these alloys, they are not only ductile, (can be bent into a new shape without cracking) but they are corrosion resistant without surface treatment. They tend to form a surface layer that prevents further corrosion.

I absolutely love composite structures, but I've got to admit, aluminum casting is probably the way to go for a great number of reasons. They can be recycled easily, welded, conduct electricity and can be engineered for perfection.

I'm sure I do not have enough information on the subject, but it just seems like Tesla is both disruptive and innovative. While no one buys a Tesla for the fit-and-finish, in comparison they seem make the legacy car companies stuck in their old ways.
Why isn't anyone else doing this?

Flame suit on...

 

[JHZR2]

The Model 2 is being engineered at Shanghai and will be built there for world wide distribution.

No thanks.

 

[JHZR2]

Regarding the tablet, this is the future. It is far cheaper than a bunch of gauges, enables diagnosis and allows for over-the-air upgrades. It is funny, almost predictable, that people aged 50+ tend to dislike the tablet interface and have trouble getting used to it. But everyone under 35 takes to it like nothing.

Funny, I’m between those age groups, so I don’t mind tablets but hate the thought of use in cars that I would own long term.

Granted, since batteries self-degrade, I’m not convinced that a tesla is a long term keeper…

But my hope would be that the tablets would meet some sort of standard, so that they could be easily replaced when they fail. I know some say they won’t, but lines of display fail even in the LCD type displays that have been around forever. I had my bmw head unit replaced under warranty because some of the lines in it wouldn’t always light up. Being reliant on proprietary tablet displays seems like a destiny for failure when cars get old or live in high heat…. But at the same time they seem like a great way to consolidate functionality, data, and updates.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Funny, I’m between those age groups, so I don’t mind tablets but hate the thought of use in cars that I would own long term.

The Model 3 is different, to be sure. The tablet takes getting used to, some peolpe flat out hate it. And I am talking about people who have test driven our car, not the anti-whatever crowd. It is not uncommon to see new owners on the side of the road trying to figure out how to work that dang thing!
While the capability of the screen is amazing and continues to get better with OTA software updates, it is a poor substitute for HUD and outside mirror BSM.

FYI, my understanding is the cost to replace a damaged touch screen display in CA is $1,500 all in. The labor can be as littas $60.
I have to believe getting into the dash of our '13 GS350 F Sport at the dealership is big bucks...

 

[JHZR2]

The Model 3 is different, to be sure. The tablet takes getting used to, some peolpe flat out hate it. And I am talking about people who have test driven our car, not the anti-whatever crowd. It is not uncommon to see new owners on the side of the road trying to figure out how to work that dang thing!
While the capability of the screen is amazing and continues to get better with OTA software updates, it is a poor substitute for HUD and outside mirror BSM.

FYI, my understanding is the cost to replace a damaged touch screen display in CA is $1,500 all in. The labor can be as littas $60.

$1500 is insane. And for the most part I know these things WILL fail, as much as some want to say it isn’t. Backlights, digitizers, etc all fail. If it’s a proprietary part, and if the aftermarket can’t repair or insert something else, the vehicle Is done.

 

[Cujet]

I'm sure I do not have enough information on the subject, but it just seems like Tesla is both disruptive and innovative. While no one buys a Tesla for the fit-and-finish, in comparison they seem make the legacy car companies stuck in their old ways.
Why isn't anyone else doing this?

Mostly because it's really not been necessary. Whether we weld a frame together in an "H" structure from twin beams (like my obviously capable F150's) or construct a "unibody" vehicle from 1000 welded sheet metal parts, we can easily engineer a sufficiently strong structure. I could duplicate the Tesla chassis by fabrication, by simply water jet cutting out a bunch of sheet metal parts with tabs that fit together. Then just weld it.

In the end, this manufacturing/automation trend often makes for fewer employees, fast production of more complex products and more profit.

A modern quality car chassis is a pretty robust structure that works exceedingly well. But one big difference is that to maintain a competitive edge, Tesla needs to house the largest possible number of cells in the floor. I'm fairly sure other manufacturers will innovate in other ways to carry huge battery packs.

Here is a chassis I welded from a large number of sheet metal parts. It's difficult to see just how complex it is, with all the required mounts (suspension/eng/trans/body etc) But the point is, it's not hard to do so accurately, and not particularly time consuming to construct.

 

[JeffKeryk]

$1500 is insane. And for the most part I know these things WILL fail, as much as some want to say it isn’t. Backlights, digitizers, etc all fail. If it’s a proprietary part, and if the aftermarket can’t repair or insert something else, the vehicle Is done.

Really? Nowadays $1500 is easy to hit in a modern car, especially in a critical component.
The early S and X have had more than 30% recall on their screens. And it is expected that they will all fail over time.

I have not heard anything about the failure rate of Model 3 and Y screens. When we bought the Model 3, I asked if I should consider a used S. Remember, the 3 was much more money 3 years ago... I was told the tech in the 3 was all new and better than the S. So far, so good.

 

[Andrew1972]

Autoweek: Here’s Why a Tesla Model 2 Is a Must for the Company.
https://www.autoweek.com/news/green-cars/a35650006/tesla-model-2-a-must-for-tesla/

$25k car with $10k option for autonomous driving?

 

[ripcord]

I saw a report that the average sale price for a car in the US was $45k in October 2021 (up 12% year over year). If it comes in around $25K and has decent quality and range, then they will sell like hotcakes. (Do hotcakes really sell that well, lol?)

 

[Kiwi_ME]

My understanding is the Model Y made at Giga Shanghai is structurally superior to the older cars, like mine.
This is due to the rear diecasting process.
Cheaper to manufacture and superior strength. They ride rock solid.
The Model 2 is being engineered at Shanghai and will be built there for world wide distribution.

No thanks.

Some Tesla buyers here have expressed a hope that their Model 3 order will be sourced from Shanghai and I think now they actually are. The Chinese-made MG ZS EV is the cheapest EV sold here and is popular simply because of that.

Consider what production areas Tesla still needs to refine and consider what the Chinese currently do best. It seems a perfect match.

 

[ZeeOSix]

China vs USA made Tesla Model 3.

 

[PandaBear]

I'm sure I do not have enough information on the subject, but it just seems like Tesla is both disruptive and innovative. While no one buys a Tesla for the fit-and-finish, in comparison they seem make the legacy car companies stuck in their old ways.
Why isn't anyone else doing this?

Flame suit on...

1) To be viewed as fast growing you need to keep losing money and keep growing.
2) The funding for growth is not from selling cars at a profit but from selling stocks.
3) Risk vs reward. People buying Tesla stocks and cars know what they are buying, and people buying normal cars aren't expecting a company that suddenly innovate its way into the next generation but comes with a risk that it might go under, or other 'excitement'.

I think these are the main reasons why traditional car companies don't try to do this.

I'll keep buying boring cars from boring companies knowing that I will have no concern of reliability for another 25 years. I cannot say the same about Tesla yet (maybe in 20 years I can). Tesla isn't the only one, I'm not buying a Mitsubishi or Chinese branded car in the US for the exact same reason as well.

 

[PandaBear]

Funny, I’m between those age groups, so I don’t mind tablets but hate the thought of use in cars that I would own long term.

Granted, since batteries self-degrade, I’m not convinced that a tesla is a long term keeper…

But my hope would be that the tablets would meet some sort of standard, so that they could be easily replaced when they fail. I know some say they won’t, but lines of display fail even in the LCD type displays that have been around forever. I had my bmw head unit replaced under warranty because some of the lines in it wouldn’t always light up. Being reliant on proprietary tablet displays seems like a destiny for failure when cars get old or live in high heat…. But at the same time they seem like a great way to consolidate functionality, data, and updates.

I am sure if the volume is high enough someone will make those display available on eBay or Amazon. If you can get compatible display for iPhone you can get it too if the volume is big.

The problem is, automotive volume is not big in comparison.