Tesla Milestone: 5 Millionth Car Manufactured

[UncleDave]

Do you consider $19.10 an hour reasonable for putting front ends on Broncos? My 16 year old makes within a hair of that in training to serve coffee at Starbucks.

It's not as simple as hourly wage to the employee.

I'm sure starbucks has nowhere near the healthcare the UAW has and has no pension plan like the UAW.

Whats the actual package consist of and whats it cost the auto company?

Average cost to GM was 69 an hour in 2008.

https://www.manufacturing.net/supply-chain/news/13067497/gm-vs-toyota-wages-and-benefits

 

[Torrid]

Do you consider $19.10 an hour reasonable for putting front ends on Broncos? My 16 year old makes within a hair of that in training to serve coffee at Starbucks.

That's the truth though. Everyone only hears the high seniority and more specialized positions pay.

 

[Vercingetorix]

It's not as simple as hourly wage to the employee.

I'm sure starbucks has nowhere near the healthcare the UAW has and has no pension plan like the UAW.

Whats the actual package consist of and whats it cost the auto company?

Average cost to GM was 69 an hour in 2008.

https://www.manufacturing.net/supply-chain/news/13067497/gm-vs-toyota-wages-and-benefits

“according to the companies” is laughable.

 

[UncleDave]

“according to the companies” is laughable.

Are you saying AP misquoted GM AND Toyota ?
Or that Gm and Toyota gave AP bad info?

Hourly wage is not what a whole package cost.

 

[PandaBear]

It's all about control.

Who wants a vehicle that lasts 20+ years anyway and is cheap to keep on the road and reliable?

Hmmm, no one I guess...

20 years is always my goal, at least when I sell it early I expect it to last the remaining years, and I get a good price for it due to low depreciation from the durability.

 

[Vercingetorix]

Are you saying AP misquoted GM AND Toyota ?
Or that Gm and Toyota gave AP bad info?

Hourly wage is not what a whole package cost.

The article and quotes are from 2008. 2008 I was making half of what I am making now. The article quoted is irrelevant.

 

[PandaBear]

It's not as simple as hourly wage to the employee.

I'm sure starbucks has nowhere near the healthcare the UAW has and has no pension plan like the UAW.

Whats the actual package consist of and whats it cost the auto company?

Average cost to GM was 69 an hour in 2008.

https://www.manufacturing.net/supply-chain/news/13067497/gm-vs-toyota-wages-and-benefits

The legacy companies use financial tricks to kick the retirement / healthcare cost down the road to get themselves that $69/hr rate. Manufacturing in general is going to be too expensive for manufacturer to pay more, and too cheap to get young people in the door. You see this in every field of manufacturing in most developed countries, not just US. I wouldn't blame GM or UAW for this.

Why install front brakes for $69/hr when you can sit in the office coding for $70/hr? If there is a higher demand the manufacturers would not be able to hire people by paying less. You can never pay people cheap enough to work but you can always install robots to work cheaper. I don't see any way out of automation by striking.

 

[UncleDave]

The article and quotes are from 2008. 2008 I was making half of what I am making now. The article quoted is irrelevant.

I said it was from 2008.

Im using it to show the difference between hourly wage and package cost.

Do you have or know current package costs?

 

[UncleDave]

The legacy companies use financial tricks to kick the retirement / healthcare cost down the road to get themselves that $69/hr rate. Manufacturing in general is going to be too expensive for manufacturer to pay more, and too cheap to get young people in the door. You see this in every field of manufacturing in most developed countries, not just US. I wouldn't blame GM or UAW for this.

Why install front brakes for $69/hr when you can sit in the office coding for $70/hr? If there is a higher demand the manufacturers would not be able to hire people by paying less. You can never pay people cheap enough to work but you can always install robots to work cheaper. I don't see any way out of automation by striking.

Do you think those bennies are free ? Of course they use healthcare and and retirement to get to X per hour.

How is including all the costs " a trick"?

Same question - whats the actual package cost?

Wage is only a component of that.

 

[ME_Andy]

I would like to see the leadership of the automakers come out and say you're right, we're taking a 10% pay cut. That would deflate the main UAW argument real quick.

TBH I see both sides here. I wish the legacy automakers were able to hire easily enough to get rid of the unions, though.

 

[alarmguy]

Do you consider $19.10 an hour reasonable for putting front ends on Broncos? My 16 year old makes within a hair of that in training to serve coffee at Starbucks.

@Torrid
Not exactly accurate, everyone starts someplace.
Your 16 year old will never work up to the pay level of $66 an hour.

A little research goes a long way =

“So what do United Auto Workers members make? A blog post in August on UAW contracts by Kristin Dziczek, a policy adviser at the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, put the top hourly production wage for UAW members at $32 an hour. It also put estimated hourly labor costs for the Detroit Three automakers for those workers, including benefits and bonuses, at an estimated $66 per hour this year.“

Ya really think Tesla’s Musk wants a union to come in so he can pay $19 an hour? No
He doesn’t want a union because workers are too expensive

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2023/09/20/wages-uaw-talks-what-they-are-now/70896998007/

 

[JeffKeryk]

Always interesting to me when I see comparisons of jobs and compensation. It's a supply vs demand, my friends.
When I worked as a tree trimmer, in a warehouse, gas station, etc., I worked my rear off. My homelessness job was far harder, FYI.
When I worked as a computer programmer I sat around, played with computers and went to meetings. Drank coffee.

Which one do you think made bank? There is no fair.
Oh yeah, and youz guyz all make too much. How dare you! Driving up inflation!

 

[Fabulous50s]

Yep. Our Model 3 needs almost no maintenance. Cabin air filter and blue warsher water. I did rotate the tires once...
Dang reliable for the last 5 years anyway.

There is a large disparity between 5 years and 20+ years. That was my point. With all the software, auto drive, and battery degradation Musk nor anyone else will be able to make a vehicle (EV) which will last 20+ years w/o major $$$$$ to keep on the road. That was my point.

Not with current technology anyway.

 

[JeffKeryk]

There is a large disparity between 5 years and 20+ years. That was my point. With all the software, auto drive, and battery degradation Musk nor anyone else will be able to make a vehicle (EV) which will last 20+ years w/o major $$$$$ to keep on the road. That was my point.

Not with current technology anyway.

Evidence?

 

[Torrid]

@Torrid
Not exactly accurate, everyone starts someplace.
Your 16 year old will never work up to the pay level of $66 an hour.

A little research goes a long way =

“So what do United Auto Workers members make? A blog post in August on UAW contracts by Kristin Dziczek, a policy adviser at the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago, put the top hourly production wage for UAW members at $32 an hour. It also put estimated hourly labor costs for the Detroit Three automakers for those workers, including benefits and bonuses, at an estimated $66 per hour this year.“

Ya really think Tesla’s Musk wants a union to come in so he can pay $19 an hour? No
He doesn’t want a union because workers are too expensive

https://www.freep.com/story/money/cars/2023/09/20/wages-uaw-talks-what-they-are-now/70896998007/

$32 an hour and $66 with back end benefits is pretty weak to be honest.

 

[Fabulous50s]

Evidence?

Do you or anyine yoy know have a 20 year old EV which is still roadworthy with the original battery? That's my point.

Current battery tech isn't where it needs to be to replace ICE.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Do you or anyine yoy know have a 20 year old EV which is still roadworthy with the original battery? That's my point.

Current battery tech isn't where it needs to be to replace ICE.

That works both ways.
You nor I have evidence either way; Teslas are too new. But recent expectations seem to show the battery can be expected to last the life of the car. 200K to 300K or even much more.
From Motor Trend:
The Maiden Voyage blog has been sharing one owner's experience with a 2018 Tesla Model 3 Long Range RWD that reached the 200,000 miles mark with 13.7 percent degradation. One MotorTrend reader, Cory, shared with us that his 2018 Model 3 Long Range had crossed the 100,000-mile mark in late June 2022 with around 7 percent capacity loss.

Battery tech has improved since the early cars.

 

[Torrid]

That works both ways.
You nor I have evidence either way; Teslas are too new. But recent expectations seem to show the battery can be expected to last the life of the car. 200K to 300K or even much more.
From Motor Trend:
The Maiden Voyage blog has been sharing one owner's experience with a 2018 Tesla Model 3 Long Range RWD that reached the 200,000 miles mark with 13.7 percent degradation. One MotorTrend reader, Cory, shared with us that his 2018 Model 3 Long Range had crossed the 100,000-mile mark in late June 2022 with around 7 percent capacity loss.

Battery tech has improved since the early cars.

This is what makes me continue to question if I'll get another GTI or not. It's a great car, but the scheduled maintenance is expensive for a $40k car. Beyond the initial purchase and insurance, the Tesla has cost me nothing except for much cheaper fueling, especially with home charging.

Frankly if the battery craps out at 200k miles I won't care. It should last longer, but it won't be in my garage by that mileage anyway.

 

[JeffKeryk]

This is what makes me continue to question if I'll get another GTI or not. It's a great car, but the scheduled maintenance is expensive for a $40k car. Beyond the initial purchase and insurance, the Tesla has cost me nothing except for much cheaper fueling, especially with home charging.

Frankly if the battery craps out at 200k miles I won't care. It should last longer, but it won't be in my garage by that mileage anyway.

As always, it depends on one's use case. I cannot see myself buying anything else new except a Tesla.
The GS350 F Sport is a great car in so many ways and does not ask for much. The Model 3 has spoiled me in other ways.

 

[Torrid]

As always, it depends on one's use case. I cannot see myself buying anything else new except a Tesla.
The GS350 F Sport is a great car in so many ways and does not ask for much. The Model 3 has spoiled me in other ways.

I'm getting there. I've spend $1400 in service in maintenance on the GTI and nothing was outside of warranty. Purely scheduled maintenance other than the Haldex differential service which cost me $180, that was elective per the US maintenance schedule, but every other market calls for it. For more performance that puts me in a Golf R at $47k by the time I get out the door and at that price I'm basically in a Model 3 Performance and it will cost less across the board to drive and still slightly faster than the Golf R. The numbers don't lie.

I might have just talked myself into the Model 3 Performance right now. I'm not buying a GTI that isn't a fully loaded Autobahn and that's already $41k. I can still get a manual for 2024 but that actually makes it slower than my current DSG twin clutch car.