Tesla Milestone: 5 Millionth Car Manufactured

[alarmguy]

IMO the incentive removal combined with the other points I made will slow them down considerably, kill? No, I didn't say or imply that, but there will be an uptick in ICE sales. Having said that, the way things are going now my wish list is not going to happen. Elon's ACE is in the hole. But one can still hope.

Dont short change yourself. If the EV credits were discontinued tomorrow, EV only USA car companies stocks would get slammed.

I could care less also having a pissing match between the 1% wealthy in this world and would STRONGLY question using ones unrealized stock gains as a measure of who is the most wealthy and dont ask me what that has to do with Tesla's CEO who is an employee with vast holdings in company stock shares. His employment is still in control by Tesla's board not Musk..

 

[4wd]

Well, Musk has said he is against subsidies, for whatever that's worth. I did get a subsidy with my car in Dec 2018, but I won't get another because now there is an income limit. I will say the tax credit was a factor in my decision to buy the car. Of course the same car would be far cheaper today.

If you are against subsidies, perhaps we should pull the Naval ships out of the Persian Gulf? What are we at, about $20B annually in big oil subsidies? More? How many times have we, the taxpayers, bailed out car companies? To your point, this is a big ol' shiny silver platter...

Your point is well taken. Personally I choose to support the workers at the Fremont plant which is right up the road. I am happy to see an American company leading the world in a major product market.

You will have the same geopolitical issues over mineral extraction at some point - and you know who’s already chess and who’s still checkers …
We need to get the “suits” out of the way - let engineers and investors figure out what the balance will be …

 

[PandaBear]

Correct Waymo is geofenced. It will not work at all outside SF/ geofenced area.

Supercruise is also geofenced - last I checked it was good for about 5% of the roads in the US.

FSD got nicked in the 22 CR report disproportionately not because of its performance - because it didn't have as many driver monitoring disconnects which it now does.

They only drive in SF because they are mapped to do so. That's not the same thing.

Which is a good thing to be honest. You want to be careful with self driving if you want the technology to develop, instead of just calling it a "prototype" or "beta" and then toss the responsibility to the driver and tell him / her "I give up, hurry up and take the wheel" all of a sudden.

Eventually I think both Waymo / Cruise and Tesla would get there and learn from each others. I do believe Tesla would have to take on the hard challenge Waymo / Cruise are tackling first, instead of just taking the low hanging fruit of coasting on a good road then hand in the towel when things are tough.

 

[PandaBear]

My point is, from a business standpoint, Musk has achieved incredible success. I am not sure why someone would suggest the BOD should fire him; that makes zero sense. Ask any market analyst; they will tell you the market's biggest concern surrounding Tesla is the loss of their leader.

Tesla is worth what it is because of Elon. Replace him with another auto executive and it will be priced like one, and people would not buy one if they don't have the cool factor.

 

[E365]

FSD might end up being the best thing ever. But, I think it certainly deserves criticism at this point. In 2016, Musk said by the end of 2017 FSD would be able to drive coast-to-coast without intervention. We’re approaching the end of 2023 and it still can’t.

Just a few weeks ago, Elon did a live stream to “show off” how good the latest version of FSD is now. The car attempted to accelerated through a red light into oncoming traffic turning on a green arrow in front of him. It’s still a LONG ways off from being a “game-changing” technology.

Here’s the video

 

[JeffKeryk]

Just a few weeks ago, Elon did a live stream to “show off” how good FSD is now. The car attempted to accelerated through a red light into oncoming traffic turning on a green arrow in front of him. It’s still a LONG ways off from being a “game-changing” technology.

Sounds like it is programmed like a human driver from Silicon Valley. Red lights mean, "Punch it Eddie!"

 

[UncleDave]

Which is a good thing to be honest. You want to be careful with self driving if you want the technology to develop, instead of just calling it a "prototype" or "beta" and then toss the responsibility to the driver and tell him / her "I give up, hurry up and take the wheel" all of a sudden.

Eventually I think both Waymo / Cruise and Tesla would get there and learn from each others. I do believe Tesla would have to take on the hard challenge Waymo / Cruise are tackling first, instead of just taking the low hanging fruit of coasting on a good road then hand in the towel when things are tough.

Geofencing is a cheat to make the task easier.

Rather than the manufacturers figuring this out on their own the NHSTA should publish a spec and a set of algorithms everyone adheres to.

 

[Torrid]

Geofencing is a cheat to make the task easier.

Rather than the manufacturers figuring this out on their own the NHSTA should publish a spec and a set of algorithms everyone adheres to.

I'd say that's an interesting take. It's using more information to make a better result.

 

[UncleDave]

I'd say that's an interesting take. It's using more information to make a better result.

It COULD make for a better result. The 2021 waymo crash statistics are horrible.

It definitely makes for a more limited area of usability.

 

[Torrid]

It COULD make for a better result. The 2021 waymo crash statistics are horrible.

It definitely makes for a more limited area of usability.

It's not a guarantee, just a leg up. I for sure do not trust Tesla's system. With the camera based system even the base driver's aides it's worse to use than my GTI. The GTI's is much more reliable and that's sad.

 

[Trav]

FSD might end up being the best thing ever. But, I think it certainly deserves criticism at this point. In 2016, Musk said by the end of 2017 FSD would be able to drive coast-to-coast without intervention. We’re approaching the end of 2023 and it still can’t.

Just a few weeks ago, Elon did a live stream to “show off” how good the latest version of FSD is now. The car attempted to accelerated through a red light into oncoming traffic turning on a green arrow in front of him. It’s still a LONG ways off from being a “game-changing” technology.

Here’s the video

Not Tesla but self driving car problems. Could this happen to Tesla, 100% it could without any doubt.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ivers-furious-20-Cruises-gridlock-Austin.html

 

[UncleDave]

It's not a guarantee, just a leg up. I for sure do not trust Tesla's system. With the camera based system even the base driver's aides it's worse to use than my GTI. The GTI's is much more reliable and that's sad.

I've not tried VW's.

I would say experience with Tesla is better than my hondas "sensing" and my parents subarus " eyesight".

I dont really trust any of them in anything but a straight line on a highway and even then I keep my hands on the wheel as something as simple as the lane markers disappearing can throw them all off.

 

[PandaBear]

Geofencing is a cheat to make the task easier.

Rather than the manufacturers figuring this out on their own the NHSTA should publish a spec and a set of algorithms everyone adheres to.

It is not a cheat if it works within the defined area as advertised. Do you call automobile not able to go on dirt path that horses have no problem "cheating"? It too is geofencing if you can only work on a paved road.

Why NHSTA didn't publish a spec and algorithm? I can tell a lot of roads are not up to spec in 2023 (pot hole? reflective crack filler makes it hard to see where the lanes are?) how do you expect people to pay to have all the roads up to spec just for driverless cars that aren't here yet? The only way it would work is if people figured out how to do driverless car first, and right now we still are trying things out.

Hence, geofencing is the right way to go, get the ball rolling on proven roads, then gradually expand it, and let the commercial trucking and drivers pay for it with labor cost savings, fix the roads if you have to.

 

[PandaBear]

Not Tesla but self driving car problems. Could this happen to Tesla, 100% it could without any doubt.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ivers-furious-20-Cruises-gridlock-Austin.html

It's not a guarantee, just a leg up. I for sure do not trust Tesla's system. With the camera based system even the base driver's aides it's worse to use than my GTI. The GTI's is much more reliable and that's sad.

There is a way simpler way to solve this problem instead of using camera: just use a transmitter to broadcast traffic signal, and let the car receive this signal.

But fancy pants have problem with geofencing and camera with AI for no reason, when the solution is already there: just pay to upgrade the traffic signals to broadcast them and not relying on cameras.

 

[clinebarger]

There are much larger issues to be shocked about.

Should US servicemen boycott GM for illegally repossessing 71 cars ?

Manufacturers have all kinds of ways to take advantage of people that has nothing to do with software.

https://www.military.com/daily-news...sing-troops-cars-among-other-infractions.html

I had a vehicle illegally repossessed by GM Financial, Quite the ordeal to get my own property back over a clerical mistake!!

 

[Torrid]

I've not tried VW's.

I would say experience with Tesla is better than my hondas "sensing" and my parents subarus " eyesight".

I dont really trust any of them in anything but a straight line on a highway and even then I keep my hands on the wheel as something as simple as the lane markers disappearing can throw them all off.

I think it’s just because the VW also uses radar. The amount of phantom braking incidents in the Tesla is laughable. I’ve had one in the VW. I’ve lost count in the Tesla. Personally I just shut most of the systems off in both cars most of the time unless I feel a bit tired. I really don’t like how either is implemented, but the Tesla is borderline horrible.

 

[UncleDave]

I think it’s just because the VW also uses radar. The amount of phantom braking incidents in the Tesla is laughable. I’ve had one in the VW. I’ve lost count in the Tesla. Personally I just shut most of the systems off in both cars most of the time unless I feel a bit tired. I really don’t like how either is implemented, but the Tesla is borderline horrible.

The honda is really bad at phantom braking especially on curvy two lane roads/ where I live in the sierra mountains.

It also wont keep a curve thats more than a degree of or two.

Id love to try the VW, Ive been thinking of a golf R for a while.

 

[UncleDave]

It is not a cheat if it works within the defined area as advertised. Do you call automobile not able to go on dirt path that horses have no problem "cheating"? It too is geofencing if you can only work on a paved road.

Why NHSTA didn't publish a spec and algorithm? I can tell a lot of roads are not up to spec in 2023 (pot hole? reflective crack filler makes it hard to see where the lanes are?) how do you expect people to pay to have all the roads up to spec just for driverless cars that aren't here yet? The only way it would work is if people figured out how to do driverless car first, and right now we still are trying things out.

Hence, geofencing is the right way to go, get the ball rolling on proven roads, then gradually expand it, and let the commercial trucking and drivers pay for it with labor cost savings, fix the roads if you have to.

Does it work in the defined area though?

When you look at the Waymos crash stats - they still had something like 150 collisions in one year with a tiny number of cars with sensors bolted all over them.

 

[Torrid]

The honda is really bad at phantom braking especially on curvy two lane roads/ where I live in the sierra mountains.

It also wont keep a curve thats more than a degree of or two.

Id love to try the VW, Ive been thinking of a golf R for a while.

I was looking for a new GTI but recently decided I'll be trying to grab a new Golf R sometime next year. I'm curious to see if the systems have gotten even better or at least stayed the same. As long as there's defined road lines it'll hold long sweeping curves even at highway speeds for 70mph+. It does make you touch the wheel after a bit like they all do, but I was surprised how good the system works considering I have a 2018 and I don't recall them doing any crazy marketing about what it could do.

I really think the only reason it seems better than the Tesla is the actual radar. The Tesla can only make decisions based on camera input and the VW has both to compare. It's annoying when any car that has the ability to use radar cruise must use it, or at least in the case of my cars I can't shut the feature off. Its been awhile since it happened last, but it just happens at the most random moments, cruise set, middle of nowhere, no vehicles around me, and the Tesla just jumps hard on the binders. I don't recall it saying anything on the screen of possible collision or any other warnings. The VW beeps and will put up a collision warning if it is trying to make an emergency stop.

 

[PandaBear]

Does it work in the defined area though?

When you look at the Waymos crash stats - they still had something like 150 collisions in one year with a tiny number of cars with sensors bolted all over them.

It depends on what you mean by "work".

It drives better than a 16 year old with newly issued license for sure. It cannot avoid crazy drivers in another car for sure, just like other human drivers on the road. I have to say on my recent trip out of SF that takes me 30 mins, I see 5 Waymo and 2 Cruise, so those cars are literally running all over the place already instead of just "a tiny number of cars". Maybe the same car going around again and again should not be counted as "just a tiny number".

I think sensors bolted all over is a good thing, instead of being cheap and rely on cameras alone.

Is it perfect? Definitely not, just like the initial roads weren't when cars first came out. Over time we found that we have no other way but to add center dividers, splitting roads into "lanes", traffic signals and signs, rules and fines, etc. I would not be surprised we will find out eventually we have to modify our roads again for self driving.

The main question to me would be who will pay for it, and where to modify. So a geofence area of improvement and user (self driving car's owners or renters) pay for it via a fee would be my preference. You are charged for some toll to pay for the road improvements until it becomes national standard and self driving becomes patent free and everyone has one. You can't certify something until that something becomes "geofenced". Same as issuing a driver license, you test them based on "road test" instead of off roading, and insurance companies don't pay for damage if you go off road and damage your cars, that's "geofence" as well, but it makes it easier for everyone.