Tesla continues Silicon Valley expansion.

[PandaBear]

I just love seeing Tesla continue to invest in domestic manufacturing and wonder why anyone can hate on US jobs by just trashing a truly US based company.

When you start touching politics you will also start entering the battle field where political rivals will find fault in everything you do. That's human nature.

About his "job creations", he did not do it out of charity and he fire people at will in and out of his companies. All of a sudden the supercharger team got decimated because they are no longer Tesla exclusive, and all the employees in the R&D got laid off. You already know about the Federal government side, and I won't repeat it here due to politics, but someone's jobs got cut as a result (whether it is right or wrong good or bad it is more of which side of the fence you are on). Can't blame people for hating him for that.

I see him no better or worse than Zuckerberg, and I have no opinion of that guy also.

 

[PandaBear]

That scammer.
At this point I really don’t get people who are buying his cars.
The earnings call yesterday was a disaster bcs. FSD in HW3, and yet he still preceded to lie about HW4 capabilities, then retracting statements.
So now people who paid $8,000-$15,000 for full FSD and have HW3, will NOT get money back. Only thing they can do is trade in their car and get discount on mew one.
This is going to be interesting next few years.

For the first couple of years when he sold "Full Self Driving Beta", I can feel sorry for those people because they probably don't know what "beta" means, and how often "beta" in engineering get scraped. (It is not even release candidate).

After so many years if you still buy one, I don't feel sorry for you. Maybe this is the best you can get, maybe not (I know a neighbor sold his Model Y and get a Caddy with SuperCruise because it works better for him). Regardless, nobody cares about FSD in HW3 in the future sales because they know things are improving yet they are not promised anything. Everyone probably feels like "they are good enough for what they paid for already", and nobody expect FSD on their generation will be perfect and newer better one will need newer better hardware. It is a computer after all, even Waymo will likely upgrade their hardware continuously too.

I am more concerned that investors still think FSD is better than Waymo's lidar and therefore Robotaxi would be better than Waymo (not just cost per car, more advanced). I think they should come to take a look in San Francisco.

 

[PandaBear]

Based on the extra antennas and equipment they added to the current Model Y to make them robotaxis, that’s quite likely. But who knows, some of that could be related to the remote, human driver system they’ve been using to fake them being fully “autonomous”.

I have said this since almost 10 years ago. The real test come when you start having fatality in statistics. I know Waymo's approach will have enough sympathy points to tell the world that they tried their best. I don't think intentionally not using Lidar and a CEO that is famous for overpromising will get the same sympathy in court.

How much safety margin you build in speaks a lot about how you do business, and how much forgiveness people hand you.

 

[alarmguy]

Tesla sales in California are down 10k units from 1st quarter 2025 to 1st quarter 2026. Supposedly the model Y L has been spotted testing in the USA recently.

Yes and I believe 2025 was also a train wreck. So should have been easy to beat in 2026?

 

[4wd]

That makes perfect sense, evolve. I wonder how much of an investment they have to make to equip themselves to service them? Not brake jobs and tire rotations but to actually troubleshoot and repair them, and if their labor rate will be higher, lower or the same to service ICE vehicles. We have a local shop that services ICE, they charge $175/hour, and to troubleshoot electrical systems he gets $200/hour. My bet is most shops will charge more to service an EV to try to recover the cost of learning and equipment.

Big enough where our 3rd generation - full GM dealer dropped Cadillac over it …
Escalade country clubbers switched to Denali overnight …

 

[Brons2]

Remember Waymo is GeoFenced where Tesla is generally not; it works on most public US and Canada roads. This is my understanding, anyways. I don't follow this much.

We have Robotaxi here and it is definitely geo-fenced, it only works in Central Austin. Which I think speaks to the "supervised" capability of their software when there's always going to be a human to take over, and what they trust it to do while completely automated.

Another unrelated issue with Robotaxi is that the app is not available on Android, which I think is short sighted on their part, but they're not listening. I would probably use it otherwise. Or if the MDM guys at work made the Robotaxi app available on my work iPhone, but that's yet a 3rd story. It's got a curated AppStore with only work approved apps.

 

[4wd]

Don’t worry - for 2028 models they will offer the Bot Bundle - just need time to get Tesla Bots trained/licensed …

 

[Brons2]

So, they weren’t really buying an electric car, they were virtue signaling?

And now, they can’t signal their virtue because of Elon?

I'm not saying you are this person, but, just generally speaking here.

Accusations of "virtue signaling" have gone way too far in this country in both directions, in my opinion. Pundits just assume something they don't necessarily agree with is "virtue signaling". We could actually talk to people, and learn what their motivations are.

If we could ever pull our heads up out of our phones, that is.

 

[Brons2]

When you start touching politics you will also start entering the battle field where political rivals will find fault in everything you do. That's human nature.

About his "job creations", he did not do it out of charity and he fire people at will in and out of his companies. All of a sudden the supercharger team got decimated because they are no longer Tesla exclusive, and all the employees in the R&D got laid off. You already know about the Federal government side, and I won't repeat it here due to politics, but someone's jobs got cut as a result (whether it is right or wrong good or bad it is more of which side of the fence you are on). Can't blame people for hating him for that.

I see him no better or worse than Zuckerberg, and I have no opinion of that guy also.

My understanding of the Supercharger layoffs is that the director of that division said No when Musk asked her for more job cuts. He then proceeded to cut the whole division. Many were subsequently hired back. A more rational way of handling that in my mind would have been to just fire the apparently insubordinate director and go from there looking for efficiencies, but Musk gonna Musk.

It does call into question whether Musk is only hiring senior managers/directors that are Yes men/women. That's generally not a sign of good organizational health. There needs to be some level of debate and dialog. It would explain a lot about all the incessant delays on various vehicles and features if this was actually the case, Musk having a vision in his mind and openly communicating that vision, meanwhile while his senior execs not really knowing how to execute it. Or how to keep their loquacious CEO's public statements in check.

Meanwhile on the Supercharger front:

Tesla is now selling their Supercharger hardware to 3rd parties, there's Tesla Supercharger hardware going in at a new charging station at a convenience store across town from me. No joke, the place is called Weirdo. https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/supercharger-weirdo-pflugerville-tx.351917/#post-9038294

 

[Brons2]

For the first couple of years when he sold "Full Self Driving Beta", I can feel sorry for those people because they probably don't know what "beta" means, and how often "beta" in engineering get scraped. (It is not even release candidate).

After so many years if you still buy one, I don't feel sorry for you. Maybe this is the best you can get, maybe not (I know a neighbor sold his Model Y and get a Caddy with SuperCruise because it works better for him). Regardless, nobody cares about FSD in HW3 in the future sales because they know things are improving yet they are not promised anything. Everyone probably feels like "they are good enough for what they paid for already", and nobody expect FSD on their generation will be perfect and newer better one will need newer better hardware. It is a computer after all, even Waymo will likely upgrade their hardware continuously too.

I am more concerned that investors still think FSD is better than Waymo's lidar and therefore Robotaxi would be better than Waymo (not just cost per car, more advanced). I think they should come to take a look in San Francisco.

We will probably buy one next time, with our eyes fully opened. Even with the limitations, FSD Supervised is still far, far better than any other system I've tried, which includes Ford BlueCruise and GM Supercruise. With the subscription model, I would only buy it when we were going on a trip - in my case I actually prefer this to the $8000 up front model. Combined with the best trip planning for charging available for an EV, if you're really all in on EVs like we are, it's the best choice.

I hear Mercedes has a true Level 3 system but I'd prefer not to try to afford it. There are some MQBs popping up used near me at pretty low prices (2023 models, sub $30K), but I'm not sure they would have this system, and Mercedes are expensive to fix when they do break.

 

[Trav]

Mercedes are expensive to fix when they do break.

If it is an EV it shouldn't need anything other than warsher fluid, wiper blades and the occasional set of tires.

 

[Brons2]

If it is an EV it shouldn't need anything other than warsher fluid, wiper blades and the occasional set of tires.

Yeah sometimes that stuff is a little over the top, what people say. Stuff like infotainment screens break. The pop-out door handles are a particular issue on older Tesla Model S with that system. And MCU upgrades to get the latest features have been an expensive added cost on older Teslas as well.

 

[alarmguy]

We have Robotaxi here and it is definitely geo-fenced, it only works in Central Austin. Which I think speaks to the "supervised" capability of their software when there's always going to be a human to take over, and what they trust it to do while completely automated.

Another unrelated issue with Robotaxi is that the app is not available on Android, which I think is short sighted on their part, but they're not listening. I would probably use it otherwise. Or if the MDM guys at work made the Robotaxi app available on my work iPhone, but that's yet a 3rd story. It's got a curated AppStore with only work approved apps.

I think the reason Android comes second to Apple with critical use apps is it is more reliable to produce one app on one manufacturers operating system that only works on that one manufacturers device than an app on Android that MUST work on up to a dozen different manufacturers devices running Android.
I only say this, not as a knock on Android but as a possible reason. I thought about this when DEXCOM CGMs (constant glucose monitors) which can be life or death in some extreme cases if you are relying on it. At first it was only available on Apple devices.
Android followed after. I could be wrong on this but to me, it seems to make sense/?

 

[edyvw]

For the first couple of years when he sold "Full Self Driving Beta", I can feel sorry for those people because they probably don't know what "beta" means, and how often "beta" in engineering get scraped. (It is not even release candidate).

After so many years if you still buy one, I don't feel sorry for you. Maybe this is the best you can get, maybe not (I know a neighbor sold his Model Y and get a Caddy with SuperCruise because it works better for him). Regardless, nobody cares about FSD in HW3 in the future sales because they know things are improving yet they are not promised anything. Everyone probably feels like "they are good enough for what they paid for already", and nobody expect FSD on their generation will be perfect and newer better one will need newer better hardware. It is a computer after all, even Waymo will likely upgrade their hardware continuously too.

I am more concerned that investors still think FSD is better than Waymo's lidar and therefore Robotaxi would be better than Waymo (not just cost per car, more advanced). I think they should come to take a look in San Francisco.

I have yet to hear him talking without lying. The investment is all about betting that investor can make money, somehow.
The only reason why Tesla is still viable is charging network, and that is keeping it alive.
They have competition from Chinese, and big boys, you know, one that actually can make vehicle.

 

[97prizm]

Is Elon ever on time?

No, and he's not running a hand-built start up either.

 

[97prizm]

When you start touching politics you will also start entering the battle field where political rivals will find fault in everything you do. That's human nature.

About his "job creations", he did not do it out of charity and he fire people at will in and out of his companies. All of a sudden the supercharger team got decimated because they are no longer Tesla exclusive, and all the employees in the R&D got laid off. You already know about the Federal government side, and I won't repeat it here due to politics, but someone's jobs got cut as a result (whether it is right or wrong good or bad it is more of which side of the fence you are on). Can't blame people for hating him for that.

I see him no better or worse than Zuckerberg, and I have no opinion of that guy also.

A few employees even sued and won their job back after proving that they were fired for no reason.

 

[97prizm]

We will probably buy one next time, with our eyes fully opened. Even with the limitations, FSD Supervised is still far, far better than any other system I've tried, which includes Ford BlueCruise and GM Supercruise. With the subscription model, I would only buy it when we were going on a trip - in my case I actually prefer this to the $8000 up front model. Combined with the best trip planning for charging available for an EV, if you're really all in on EVs like we are, it's the best choice.

I hear Mercedes has a true Level 3 system but I'd prefer not to try to afford it. There are some MQBs popping up used near me at pretty low prices (2023 models, sub $30K), but I'm not sure they would have this system, and Mercedes are expensive to fix when they do break.

Mercedes does have an actual level 3 certified system. If it's so easy why can't Tesla get level 3 certification? Stellantis said they were debuting a level 3 system in 2026..

 

[97prizm]

We have Robotaxi here and it is definitely geo-fenced, it only works in Central Austin. Which I think speaks to the "supervised" capability of their software when there's always going to be a human to take over, and what they trust it to do while completely automated.

Another unrelated issue with Robotaxi is that the app is not available on Android, which I think is short sighted on their part, but they're not listening. I would probably use it otherwise. Or if the MDM guys at work made the Robotaxi app available on my work iPhone, but that's yet a 3rd story. It's got a curated AppStore with only work approved apps.

Robotaxis aren't even semi Autonomous in California.

 

[PandaBear]

No, and he's not running a hand-built start up either.

I see his ADHD keeps popping up and he has to keep making his mature companies start up again or else he gets bored.

Cool for innovation but I don’t like cool cars that are constantly debugging itselves.

 

[97prizm]

I see his ADHD keeps popping up and he has to keep making his mature companies start up again or else he gets bored.

Cool for innovation but I don’t like cool cars that are constantly debugging itselves.

I just wish Musk would tell the truth on the new roadster. In November 2025 it was definitely early 2026 then April 1st (April fools). Then definitely at the end of April and that was three weeks ago. As of three days ago it's July due to "technical and unforseen difficulties ". What have they been doing for nine years?