Tesla AutoPilot runs over and kills motorcycle rider

[alarmguy]

This system is not ready for primetime and calling is "autopilot" and "FSD" makes it even worse. But hey, dump your money in TSLA, the robotaxi is coming in August!

Agree 100% and relates to my previous post above. I like Fords use of the words "Blue Cruise" in my mind, almost like speed cruise control, you still have to pay attention based on the words, instead of Tesla "autopilot" marketing.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

This! If Americans were semi-intelligent they'd walk away from Tesla. Musk is a lying hack. I'd bet money there is no model 2. Why? There hasn't been a single test vehicle spotted testing anywhere on the planet.

Well it something cheaper appears to be coming per the earnings call earlier this week or late last week.

 

[JavierH19]

Well it something cheaper appears to be coming per the earnings call earlier this week or late last week.

Probably a model 3 with something cheapened here and there and bam 1000 bucks less.

"affordable" is completely subjective and the verbiage in what he promised is loose enough for what i stated to be considered performing for the claim he made.

Knowing his record of being deceitful towards investors I expect a rug pull.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Probably a model 3 with something cheapened here and there and bam 1000 bucks less.

"affordable" is completely subjective and the verbiage in what he promised is loose enough for what i stated to be considered performing for the claim he made.

Knowing his record of being deceitful towards investors I expect a rug pull.

I don't think it would go over well if he did that.

 

[JavierH19]

I don't think it would go over well if he did that.

The last earnings went horribly and it rocketed 15% or so. He probably expects +30% if he releases a 1k cheaper model 3 and all he has to say is another promise of some other cheaper car and bam the investors get to justify their sunk cost fallacy and hold on some more.

 

[97prizm]

Let's put it this way, no matter what we think in here, whether we want to trash the driver or Tesla.

The game is played in the courts, in front of a jury. Not a judge, a jury.
Juries sometimes sympathize with victims over corporations (like hello?) There will come a court case where, let's say the driver believed he was being mostly safe because Tesla's marketing led him to BELIEVE he was being reasonably safe.
I could see two lawsuits against a car company, one from the owner of the car that killed someone and one from the victim who got killed.

Attorneys are going to go after the big money pie wherever they think they can win and all they have to do is convince a jury (not a judge) that their plaintiff is the victim. From what I understand Tesla owners agree to arbitration (?) not sure how that would work.

I see the comments in here asking did the operator use the "tool correctly" ?
I think this is missing the point, how did the manufacturer of the "tool" market the product? Was it marketed in a way that obscured the fact that the car can not self drive on its own and still needs driver input?

I read those materials from Tesla briefly. The promotional part leads one to believe all the wonderful aspects of its self driving technology. A jury could rule that putting a disclaimer after the marketing verbiage was not enough to make sure the purchaser know exactly the limitations? Did the owner of the car understand what he/she was reading? Were they even capable of reading and comprehending? Also he disclaimer part come AFTER the hyped up marketing could be read as misleading.

BTW- I have no idea if this is the case, but I am bringing up valid points that things are not as cut and dry as they are. There lies responsibility on a manufacturer to make sure the driver understands what they are selling and not have to decipher through marketing materials to understand it and of course a reasonable expectation the driver was doing that or understood that was to be done.

I think this can sink the "self driving" aspect of the car industry in marketing or the industry just accept its cars on self driving are going to kill people, just like drivers on non self driving kill people and will the companies will self insure for those lawsuits, much like insurance companies insure humans against lawsuits. I wonder if and how many self driving car companies already paid out compensation to avoid a court case, the cost part of doing business, along with non disclosure agreement with the parties involved. Got me.

It's kind of funny, wife and I ran into some family last night. They drove their 2024 Lincoln Navigator from NY to here, Roughly a 10 hour drive. I cant keep track of this guy, he takes cars in for oil changes and like in this case drove out in a new 2024 Lincoln Navigator for his wife that he bought waiting for the oil change *LOL*. He has also owned 2 Mustangs Mach EVs. I thought he still had one.

Anyway it came with what Ford calls it "Blue Cruise" with wording like that, one would automatically think, as I did when I heard the words, much like cruise control in a car, you still have to be interacting with the car driving it.

I dont know anything about Fords Blue Cruise except he told me for the 10 hour trip, roughly 8 hours of interstate he didnt have to touch the steering wheel. The family absolutely loves the car (or should I say bus *LOL*) Its huge, even the kids had a blast on the road trip, huge screens for movies and I think games too. This guy is a down to earth incredible family guy, would help anyone, the kind of family you would love to have living next door, self made newly what I would call wealthy guy who invented something, patented it and now being sold across this country, unbelievable the opportunities that still exist today in the USA, anyway, he was very impressed with the "Blue Cruise"

Several people took Tesla to court years ago and lost. They bought Model s back in 2016-17 when Musk claimed that "Oh Tesla would have fully autonomous vehicles in a couple of years." They should have had their vehicles bought back for triple their purchase price.

 

[fdcg27]

Tesla does tell buyers that they must keep their eyes on the road, their hands upon the wheel, to use a lyric, at all times.
OTOH, Tesla uses terms like Autopilot and FSD to promote their wares and charged a pretty premium to have these features enabled, so which is it?
There are no true FSD vehicles at the moment.
I have no idea why we should allow fully autonomous taxis to run around.
Some day, with smart highways and intercar communication protocols, interstate travel might be fully self driving, but not today.

 

[Torrid]

Hopefully litigation over matters like this will become so frequent and expensive that manufacturers will have to stop offering this ridiculous option. If you need to get somewhere and don't have the wherewithal to actually drive a vehicle, take an Uber and sleep/daydream/Instagram/text in the car to your heart's desire.

Only the driver will be to blame though. I wish people that praised this technology realized as the driver they are still responsible. It’s a driver’s aid and I don’t understand why it’s worth others lives to not be alert and actively drive their vehicle.

A novelty like this should not be street legal.

 

[Torrid]

Several people took Tesla to court years ago and lost. They bought Model s back in 2016-17 when Musk claimed that "Oh Tesla would have fully autonomous vehicles in a couple of years." They should have had their vehicles bought back for triple their purchase price.

Never buy a product for what it promises to do in the future. Only buy it for what it does today. Marques Brownlee said this about a new phone, but I think it fits any and all consumer goods.

 

[Torrid]

The problem with these new car technologies is that they are making many people even worse drivers. Cell phone use while driving could be easily disabled in software on modern phones if legislators had the will to do it.

What you can't mandate is for the driver to be engaged in the driving, when car features are taking that engagement away. I don't think you can realistically expect drivers to be attentive in the emergency when the car is doing everything else for him most of the time.

It’s very well documented than passively monitoring results in delayed response when faced with an emergency as opposed to actively driving.

 

[GrumpyCat]

Tesla tells you to keep control of the car at all times. The nag reminds you to keep both hands on the wheel. Let's see what comes of this. So many times articles blame the car when the driver has responsibility.

If you have ever driven “FSD (supervised)” you would learn one has to occasionally lightly tug the steering contrary to what Autopilot is doing for it to know you are applying attention. About every 30 seconds. Fail to do so earns a strike, one must stop the car to re-enable Autopilot, and after 3 (or 5?) strikes Autopilot is permanently disabled.

I have often unintentionally disabled Autopilot by tugging too hard.

I 100% agree with your point about driving, but not about the Tesla. It's all about using the tool correctly and personal responsibility.
That's my opinion.

Ditto.

 

[edhackett]

It’s very well documented than passively monitoring results in delayed response when faced with an emergency as opposed to actively driving.

Yes, and that prioritization of tasks is hardwired in our brains. No amount of legalese is going to change that.

Ed

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Yes, and that prioritization is hardwired in our brains. No amount of legalese is going to change that.

Ed

Per WSJ today, NHTSA getting involved again,

"The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration said on Friday that it launched the probe after its Office of Defects Investigation identified concerns from crashes that occurred after the recall and results from preliminary tests the agency performed on remedied vehicles.

Tesla issued the recall to address a previous NHTSA investigation into whether the Autopilot program contained a defect that created an unreasonable risk to vehicle safety. The agency said it identified at least 13 fatal crashes and more involving serious injuries in which Autopilot played an apparent role."

 

[alarmguy]

Just announced today by the Wall Street Journal, that the national transportation safety board has opened a new probe into Tesla’s.
Questioning if Decembers fix was appropriate, as over a dozen people have died in hundreds of crashes due to autopilot.
I’m not sure if that was the catalyst that is affecting Tesla stock today, Friday, but around 1 o’clock it started to take a nosedive.
I just noticed the post above. This is the same thing and I even liked it at the time.Lol
I’m leaving it anyway, instead of putting the words deleted in this post

 

[Vercingetorix]

Now Musk wants Full Self Driving in China.

Elon Musk in China to discuss enabling full self driving

China is Tesla's second-biggest market but the company has not enabled autonomous driving in the country.

www.bbc.com

 

[andrew_j]

The $6k per car charge is intense profit and buffer for legal issues. It’s simply software that has been already written and costs no more to flip on.

 

[JeffKeryk]

The $6k per car charge is intense profit and buffer for legal issues. It’s simply software that has been already written and costs no more to flip on.

That's why the software business can be so lucrative. And the more users, the more input Tesla gets, which will drive new and improved functionality.

 

[dumkid]

This is the reason why I don't like to ride motorcycles on pavement. Too many people don't pay attention, and a small bump in a car could cripple you for life on a bike.

Off-road you might crash and die but at least it's your own fault and you won't get ran over by a 4000 lb brick.

 

[Dave Hess]

Hopefully litigation over matters like this will become so frequent and expensive that manufacturers will have to stop offering this ridiculous option. If you need to get somewhere and don't have the wherewithal to actually drive a vehicle, take an Uber and sleep/daydream/Instagram/text in the car to your heart's desire.

Yes, it’s a ridiculous option that needs to be permanently banned.

 

[demarpaint]

Yes, it’s a ridiculous option that needs to be permanently banned.

+1 Sadly more people will have to die before that happens, if it happens at all. JMO.