Tekton's article on JIS drivers

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D60

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....with which I agree. JIS ain't nothin' special. Somewhere along the way the internet perpetuated the old wives tale that Japanese screws must have JIS drivers which are significantly different than Phillips, but my own personal experience suggests it's myth like "don't leave batteries on a concrete floor."

It gets repeated enough and people just believe it. Yeah, I have some Vessels and they're nice screwdrivers.

https://www.tekton.com/blog/jis-vs-phillips-screwdriver-tip-geometry-and-fastener-compatibility

Yes, I stated a lot of opinion and some personal experience. Before you tell me I'm wrong you'd be well-served to read the link above, and direct your arguments at Tekton's arguments. They lay it out point-by-point with citations and references to support their case.

I know there are people who will just not be able to accept this because they've been told for so long that JIS is unique unto itself. As we learned circa '20, 'tis easier to fool a person than convince them they've been fooled :(
 
After reading about JIS, I bought a JIS screwdriver recently. Haven't had need to use it yet. Guess I've been using my regular Phillips screwdriver on JIS screws all these years. I also read about a square drive screw driver for electric switches and receptacles. Always used Phillips on them, too.
 
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Interesting article. I recently bought some ball grip Vessel's and they fit screws extremely well. They even fit drywall screws better than other drivers I have used. Perhaps Vessel is making them more accurate to spec?

I have some old Craftsman "Professional" screwdrivers (black/red handles) and their tips look virtually identical to the Vessel's, perhaps giving credence to the Tekton article. Either way, the Vessel's are now my go to for screwdrivers.
 
No surprise they publish that, their screwdrivers are made by Witte in Germany to ISO standards. Some of the USA made driver didn't fit ISO or JIS well as any Euro vehicle or old Japanese MC can attest to. The Snap on were good some Craftsman were good or total crap depending on who manufactured them for Sears, Vessel was one manufacturer at on time. Stanley for the most part were a poor fit the tips were way to pointed on the #2, old New Britain were the unicorn, longest lasting and a perfect fit on JIS ISO and US.

From Tekton
Country of OriginScrewdrivers made in Germany. Modular Driver Organizer made in USA.
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@D60 Thanks for the link. BITD the ONLY bit that would loosen Japanese bike case screws without buggering them up on was the one that came with the old school impact driver. Certainly on the first removal and most of us just used the driver for any case removal.

Been looking at the Vessel Ball Grip, good to know.

As to your last sentence, my mother was apparently fooled to death in December of 2020 so everyone doesn't share your opinion. Time to let that alone.
 
Trav said:
No surprise they publish that, their screwdrivers are made by Witte in Germany to ISO standards. Some of the USA made driver didn't fit ISO or JIS well as any Euro vehicle or old Japanese MC can attest to. The Snap on were good some Craftsman were good or total crap depending on who manufactured them for Sears, Vessel was one manufacturer at on time. Stanley for the most part were a poor fit the tips were way to pointed on the #2, old New Britain were the unicorn, longest lasting and a perfect fit on JIS ISO and US.

From Tekton
Click to expand...
I feel like they address that, saying ISO would essentially have to also comply with JIS:

"Our Phillips tips follow the ISO 8764-1 standard, which is compatible with the JIS standard B 4633. In fact, of the three main standards, ASME, ISO, and JIS, the least strict standard is JIS. As shown below, the JIS dimensions almost all fall within the ASME or ISO acceptable dimensions. Therefore, any Phillips screwdriver, such as our new Tekton Phillips screwdrivers, can be made to meet JIS standards."
 
AZjeff said:
@D60 Thanks for the link. BITD the ONLY bit that would loosen Japanese bike case screws without buggering them up on was the one that came with the old school impact driver. Certainly on the first removal and most of us just used the driver for any case removal.

Been looking at the Vessel Ball Grip, good to know.

As to your last sentence, my mother was apparently fooled to death in December of 2020 so everyone doesn't share your opinion. Time to let that alone.
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I dunno. To their credit they address that head-on:

"Question 1: Isn’t it true that a Phillips screwdriver will damage older JIS screws from the 1970s and 1980s made to JIS standards?
Answer: No, not if the driver is made according to current ASME or ISO standards. We looked back at JIS literature as far as we could — to 1954, for which the standards were only available to us in Japanese. What we found is that, to the best of our knowledge, the JIS standard from 1954 is consistent with the modern JIS standard, which in turn aligns with ASME and ISO. This means that properly-made ASME/ISO Phillips drivers, like Tekton’s, will work on JIS-standard screws, both old and new."

I also give 'em credit for digging back to the 1950s. Maybe they're mistaken. Maybe they misinterpreted the standards. But it seems they did their research, unless they're flat-out lying.

As for the past, I think it's great we can all have our own takeaways from an experience. But we must not forget or we learned nothing.
 
The question I have is what model Witte is Tekton selling, it may or may not be cheaper to buy the original. I would buy them from Tekton if the price is close, great screwdrivers.
 
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Trav said:
The question I have is what model Witte is Tekton selling, it may or may not be cheaper to buy the original. I would buy them from Tekton if the price is close, great screwdrivers.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. I've never dealt with Witte -- perhaps they're great -- but warranty w Tekton tends to be really easy
 
In the past before I knew of JIS, I stripped the heads on a lot of Japanese motorcycle screws. Once I started using JIP, I'll never go back. Vessel makes some great screwdrivers and their JIS tips are a life saver. My J-vin Toyota only seee Vessel JIS screwdrivers, period.
Now I do own a lot of Tekton Tools, but I'll stay with JIS screwdrivers from Japan.
 
I can not, for the life of me, grasp the concept of not needing more tools.

It sounds unnatural, unholy and dark. It's like a pit of blackness and cold draft. The sort that is not wind, does not move, yet surrounds you in its cold embrace, sucking the warmth off your bones, shining its cold, sick light through every little hole in your tool collection. Just like a snake can crawl through the tiniest of holes, the malaise of toolesness can spoil even the cosiest of toolboxes...

I had to google what JIS is, but the veil is now lifted, and I realize the foundation of my modest tool fortress is shaky without some.

It matters not that the multitude of toolsets lost in my shed still unpacked (while I fight daily life with the remains of my 2006 ikea home set still in its orange box) probably already contain JIS. It matters little that the green Werras in my room are untouched and sealed because they are too clean to use.

The battle is on.
It is a battle that knows no mercy and merci.

It is a fire that can only be extinguished with iron will and a credit card.

Wish me luck, friends. Wish me luck.
 
I think a lot of us that came to believe that JIS was different arrived at the conclusion after buying Vessel screwdrivers and seeing them fit amazingly well on modern phillips screws.

For example, I have a Vessel Impacta that I bought for getting brake rotor screws out on Toyotas and Hondas. There is absolutely no question that they fit the screws far better than any #3 phillips I have access to. So it seemed reasonable to assume this was because "it's JIS." Well, no. It's actually because they are new and high quality, and and not the poorly made 1990s Craftsman puke-handles I've been using for ages.

It turns out a large #3 Tekton ALSO fits quite nicely in those screws. Alas, the impacting feature is the game changer for rotor screws, so Tektons will not be replacing my Vessels any time soon.

My newer Tekton and Vessel screwdrivers fit small crossheads far better than anything I remember from the past. That that's because they are made with high quality and not worn out.

Try a newer PB Swiss Phillips and you'll be gobsmacked.
 
LeeA said:
In the past before I knew of JIS, I stripped the heads on a lot of Japanese motorcycle screws. Once I started using JIP, I'll never go back. Vessel makes some great screwdrivers and their JIS tips are a life saver. My J-vin Toyota only seee Vessel JIS screwdrivers, period.
Now I do own a lot of Tekton Tools, but I'll stay with JIS screwdrivers from Japan.
Click to expand...
Same here, especially on small screws. I dont care what Tekton says. Vessel JIS work better than even some of my Snap On when working on my old Yamaha.
 
I have the Impactas in both #2 and #3, and I also have the yellow handle kit with the chisel, picks, and clip removers.

Vessel handles feel so good in hand to me.

But the new hard handle Tektons are perhaps even better. They have a LOT of glass in that polymer. They feel great in hand and won't make your toolbox smell like vomit.
 
2strokeNorthstar said:
Same here, especially on small screws. I dont care what Tekton says. Vessel JIS work better than even some of my Snap On when working on my old Yamaha.
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I actually think that's what's great: we can all make choices based on experience. (y)
 
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