T6 compared to delo 5w40
- Thread starter Sealbilly
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Haven't used Delo since it also carries API SN certification which means a reduction in zinc and phosphorous. (T6 may also have this now but I haven't bought any recently)
I don't see any reason why Delo would shear any less since the delta is still the same (40 - 5 = 35). My understanding is that the bigger this number, the greater likelihood of shear.
I don't see any reason why Delo would shear any less since the delta is still the same (40 - 5 = 35). My understanding is that the bigger this number, the greater likelihood of shear.
Originally Posted By: Reddy45
Haven't used Delo since it also carries API SN certification which means a reduction in zinc and phosphorous. (T6 may also have this now but I haven't bought any recently)
I don't see any reason why Delo would shear any less since the delta is still the same (40 - 5 = 35). My understanding is that the bigger this number, the greater likelihood of shear.
It's a lot more complex than subtracting the smaller number from the larger.
Haven't used Delo since it also carries API SN certification which means a reduction in zinc and phosphorous. (T6 may also have this now but I haven't bought any recently)
I don't see any reason why Delo would shear any less since the delta is still the same (40 - 5 = 35). My understanding is that the bigger this number, the greater likelihood of shear.
It's a lot more complex than subtracting the smaller number from the larger.
Any 5w40 oil will shear faster then the recommended 10w40 or 20w50.
Yes, there might be some slight differences but dont over think it, there is no magic to over come the large spread, most likely why bike makers do not recommend it.
Someone replied its more complicated then that, yes, maybe in some exotic oil, but the fact remains, 5w40 oils shear faster then 10/40, 15w40 and 20/50 in shared sump bikes. If your really concerned about shift quality and ride in warmer weather only 55+ degrees F.
Then ...
Save time, money, dont over think it and simply purchase 20w50 4 stroke VALVOLINE CONVENTIONAL MOTORCYCLE oil, goes for about $4.00 a quart in Walmart (only larger Walmarts carry it but believe you can ship to store online) or larger auto[parts places for $1.00 more.
You will LOVE the shift quality and your engine will last just as long. Yes of course, the HDEO 15w40 also a good choice if you dont want to go up to a 20/50. You will enjoy shift quality longer with the 20/50 though.
Yes, there might be some slight differences but dont over think it, there is no magic to over come the large spread, most likely why bike makers do not recommend it.
Someone replied its more complicated then that, yes, maybe in some exotic oil, but the fact remains, 5w40 oils shear faster then 10/40, 15w40 and 20/50 in shared sump bikes. If your really concerned about shift quality and ride in warmer weather only 55+ degrees F.
Then ...
Save time, money, dont over think it and simply purchase 20w50 4 stroke VALVOLINE CONVENTIONAL MOTORCYCLE oil, goes for about $4.00 a quart in Walmart (only larger Walmarts carry it but believe you can ship to store online) or larger auto[parts places for $1.00 more.
You will LOVE the shift quality and your engine will last just as long. Yes of course, the HDEO 15w40 also a good choice if you dont want to go up to a 20/50. You will enjoy shift quality longer with the 20/50 though.
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Originally Posted By: Sealbilly
I know many use T6 rotella in their bikes but have said it shears quickly. Have any of you guys used the delo 5w40? Does it shear as quickly as the T6 rotella and how was shifting?
I've used it and found it to be good stuff, better in my bike than the T6.
YMMV
Smoky
I know many use T6 rotella in their bikes but have said it shears quickly. Have any of you guys used the delo 5w40? Does it shear as quickly as the T6 rotella and how was shifting?
I've used it and found it to be good stuff, better in my bike than the T6.
YMMV
Smoky
I have used Delo 5w-40 and T6 5w-40. I liked the Delo better than the Rotella but all of the 5w's sheared quickly and made the shifting notchy around 1,500 miles. 15w40 keeps the shifting buttery smooth to about 5,000 miles, which is when I change the oil anyways. Unless you ride your bike with ambient temps less than 35F or so, I wouldn't bother with 5w anything. Stick with 10W or 15W. If you live somewhere where it never gets cold and your engine allows for it, you can use 20w.
Personally, I like the new Rotella T4 15w40 for my Yamaha.
Personally, I like the new Rotella T4 15w40 for my Yamaha.
Is T5 JASO rated ?? .....
OP: Been on my mind too. I'm eager for the ZDDP and HTHS numbers of CK4 Delo 5w-40 and Rotella T6 5w-40 (beyond just ">3.5"). The last I found of the synthetic (5w-40) Delo UOA/VOA showed it had a touch of Moly in it (~80ppm).
CK4 is supposed to promise better shear stability, but I'm interested in seeing how much it will carry for a bike.
CK4 is supposed to promise better shear stability, but I'm interested in seeing how much it will carry for a bike.
Originally Posted By: troop
Yeah ... It's weird how the Rotella T6 syn and T4 dino are JASO MA rated, but the T5 syn blend is not? Mybe they just don't wanna pay cert fees? Hmmm..
They don't pay the fees for any of them.
I'd venture they've modified the formula of the T5 enough from the basic add-pack to have little confidence it would pass the clutch test.
Yeah ... It's weird how the Rotella T6 syn and T4 dino are JASO MA rated, but the T5 syn blend is not? Mybe they just don't wanna pay cert fees? Hmmm..
They don't pay the fees for any of them.
I'd venture they've modified the formula of the T5 enough from the basic add-pack to have little confidence it would pass the clutch test.
Anyone think the shear stability of ck-4 T5 is better than ck-4 T4?
Add pack?
Add pack?
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
Originally Posted By: troop
Yeah ... It's weird how the Rotella T6 syn and T4 dino are JASO MA rated, but the T5 syn blend is not? Mybe they just don't wanna pay cert fees? Hmmm..
They don't pay the fees for any of them.
I'd venture they've modified the formula of the T5 enough from the basic add-pack to have little confidence it would pass the clutch test.
It’s all about the $$ and how many folks would use it in a 3 qt wet clutch sump versus using gallons at a time in a diesel sump. We aren’t their market, and they know folks will use it anyway.
However, they haven’t modified a thing to where it won’t work in a wet cluttch. They are all just different ways to skin the same cat.
The UOA I did of T5 shows normal quantities of the same antiwear additives as all HDEO’s. Rotella doesn’t need to test it, common comparison says that it will work just fine. How many millions of miles did T4 have in wet clutches before it was certified?
Ran T5 15w40 in my modified ZRX1200 (145+ hp, 87 ft/lbs) and it 1) stayed in grade over a 4,000 mile OCI, 2) had the best wear numbers of any oil I have tested, 3) clutch is as tight at 55,000 miles as when it was stock and making much less power across the rev range and 4) shift quality remained high for the entire OCI.
T5 15w40, use it with confidence!
Originally Posted By: troop
Yeah ... It's weird how the Rotella T6 syn and T4 dino are JASO MA rated, but the T5 syn blend is not? Mybe they just don't wanna pay cert fees? Hmmm..
They don't pay the fees for any of them.
I'd venture they've modified the formula of the T5 enough from the basic add-pack to have little confidence it would pass the clutch test.
It’s all about the $$ and how many folks would use it in a 3 qt wet clutch sump versus using gallons at a time in a diesel sump. We aren’t their market, and they know folks will use it anyway.
However, they haven’t modified a thing to where it won’t work in a wet cluttch. They are all just different ways to skin the same cat.
The UOA I did of T5 shows normal quantities of the same antiwear additives as all HDEO’s. Rotella doesn’t need to test it, common comparison says that it will work just fine. How many millions of miles did T4 have in wet clutches before it was certified?
Ran T5 15w40 in my modified ZRX1200 (145+ hp, 87 ft/lbs) and it 1) stayed in grade over a 4,000 mile OCI, 2) had the best wear numbers of any oil I have tested, 3) clutch is as tight at 55,000 miles as when it was stock and making much less power across the rev range and 4) shift quality remained high for the entire OCI.
T5 15w40, use it with confidence!
Lets make clear one thing here, for others that may not know.
ROTELLA oils are NOT JASO RATED or APPROVED.
Rotella simply states that their oils meet the Jaso standard.
I have no doubt that Rotella meets the standards they claim, but its just important to point that out when asking why other HDEO oils are not rated the same. The answer is non of them are rated JASO, just that Shell goes the extra step of stating their oil meets the standard.
Its the same as saying some automotive oils not API rated but make the claim that they meet the standard.
You can download the list with the link below
www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV_LIST.pdf
ROTELLA oils are NOT JASO RATED or APPROVED.
Rotella simply states that their oils meet the Jaso standard.
I have no doubt that Rotella meets the standards they claim, but its just important to point that out when asking why other HDEO oils are not rated the same. The answer is non of them are rated JASO, just that Shell goes the extra step of stating their oil meets the standard.
Its the same as saying some automotive oils not API rated but make the claim that they meet the standard.
You can download the list with the link below
www.jalos.or.jp/onfile/pdf/4T_EV_LIST.pdf
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Originally Posted By: Bonz
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
Originally Posted By: troop
Yeah ... It's weird how the Rotella T6 syn and T4 dino are JASO MA rated, but the T5 syn blend is not? Mybe they just don't wanna pay cert fees? Hmmm..
They don't pay the fees for any of them.
I'd venture they've modified the formula of the T5 enough from the basic add-pack to have little confidence it would pass the clutch test.
It’s all about the $$ and how many folks would use it in a 3 qt wet clutch sump versus using gallons at a time in a diesel sump. We aren’t their market, and they know folks will use it anyway.
However, they haven’t modified a thing to where it won’t work in a wet cluttch. They are all just different ways to skin the same cat.
The UOA I did of T5 shows normal quantities of the same antiwear additives as all HDEO’s. Rotella doesn’t need to test it, common comparison says that it will work just fine. How many millions of miles did T4 have in wet clutches before it was certified?
Ran T5 15w40 in my modified ZRX1200 (145+ hp, 87 ft/lbs) and it 1) stayed in grade over a 4,000 mile OCI, 2) had the best wear numbers of any oil I have tested, 3) clutch is as tight at 55,000 miles as when it was stock and making much less power across the rev range and 4) shift quality remained high for the entire OCI.
T5 15w40, use it with confidence!
There are many friction modifiers that will not show up on a VOA or UAO. Anti-wear chemistry has little to do with clutch performance in most cases.
Also, it costs a whopping $400 to register a product with JASO and about $3000 to complete the testing at full commercial price from an outside lab (which they probably don't need to since I'm sure they have the equipment in their own labs). The money is not an issue here.
I don't personally know Shell's reasoning, but my guess is more about formula control. Once you register with JASO, you cannot make any formula adjustments aside from anti-foam and PPD content without re-registering the new formula. It becomes a hassle if you want to adjust the formula in any way and can be a bit of a handcuff in some cases.
As to why T5 differs from T4 or T6, I'd say that there is a friction modifier somewhere in the formula that they aren't confident wouldn't affect a clutch. They've already got T4 and T6 to cover the application, so there's no business case to give T5 a second thought with regards to bikes.
Oh, and in regard to how many miles T4 has before it was certified, I'd say infinite, because it has never been registered with JASO.
Originally Posted By: MotoTribologist
Originally Posted By: troop
Yeah ... It's weird how the Rotella T6 syn and T4 dino are JASO MA rated, but the T5 syn blend is not? Mybe they just don't wanna pay cert fees? Hmmm..
They don't pay the fees for any of them.
I'd venture they've modified the formula of the T5 enough from the basic add-pack to have little confidence it would pass the clutch test.
It’s all about the $$ and how many folks would use it in a 3 qt wet clutch sump versus using gallons at a time in a diesel sump. We aren’t their market, and they know folks will use it anyway.
However, they haven’t modified a thing to where it won’t work in a wet cluttch. They are all just different ways to skin the same cat.
The UOA I did of T5 shows normal quantities of the same antiwear additives as all HDEO’s. Rotella doesn’t need to test it, common comparison says that it will work just fine. How many millions of miles did T4 have in wet clutches before it was certified?
Ran T5 15w40 in my modified ZRX1200 (145+ hp, 87 ft/lbs) and it 1) stayed in grade over a 4,000 mile OCI, 2) had the best wear numbers of any oil I have tested, 3) clutch is as tight at 55,000 miles as when it was stock and making much less power across the rev range and 4) shift quality remained high for the entire OCI.
T5 15w40, use it with confidence!
There are many friction modifiers that will not show up on a VOA or UAO. Anti-wear chemistry has little to do with clutch performance in most cases.
Also, it costs a whopping $400 to register a product with JASO and about $3000 to complete the testing at full commercial price from an outside lab (which they probably don't need to since I'm sure they have the equipment in their own labs). The money is not an issue here.
I don't personally know Shell's reasoning, but my guess is more about formula control. Once you register with JASO, you cannot make any formula adjustments aside from anti-foam and PPD content without re-registering the new formula. It becomes a hassle if you want to adjust the formula in any way and can be a bit of a handcuff in some cases.
As to why T5 differs from T4 or T6, I'd say that there is a friction modifier somewhere in the formula that they aren't confident wouldn't affect a clutch. They've already got T4 and T6 to cover the application, so there's no business case to give T5 a second thought with regards to bikes.
Oh, and in regard to how many miles T4 has before it was certified, I'd say infinite, because it has never been registered with JASO.
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