Synthetic vs organic fertilizer

[Drew99GT]

What are your thoughts??? Does anyone have multiple seasons of using one vs the other, and did you notice any differences in lawn health? Also, what kind of soil do you have? Thanks!

I finally got a soil test done; I have hard clay alkaline soil (which I thought was true). I also measured my yard and it's actually around 4,000 sq feet of grass. I thought it was more in the neighborhood of 2,000 sq feet. So I've been drastically underfeeding my yard, although I have been using an organic based dehydrated poultry waste fertilizer. Since I'm going to have to use a lot more fertilizer, the cost is going to be a concern. Well, it isn't, but I'm always looking to save money. I can add organic matter with dry humate/kelp powder that you add water to, but I've also read salt based fertilizers are not good for alkaline/dry clay type soils.

Any thoughts? Thanks again.

 

[SuperDave456]

You kind of get a quick "pop" from synthetic fertilizers.
It lasts, if you mulch it, but doesn't seem to do it's job for very long.

Organic fertilizers, those with lots of non-soluble protein, like Soy Bean Meal (which is significantly more expensive now than 3 years ago). Those take a while to kick in, but when they do you can watch the grass grow.

I use both. I'd prefer to stick with the organic stuff, but like you say, cost is a factor.

Soil amendments and organic fertilizers are good at feeding the micro-organisms that break things down and feed your grass. Things like Dried Molasses are awesome at feeding these organisms, and you have healthier deeper roots because of it.
Green sand, which is a sand that contains a lot of minerals including Iron, lava sand, same thing lots of minerals, and other amendments are also a good starting point.

One thing you want to think about is what happened to that plot of land before you got there.
The previous owner of this house let his yard be over run with weeds and never watered.
When I bought the property I spent a considerable sum dropping Soy Bean Meal, Green Sand, Lava Sand, and Poultry based fertilizer on the lawn to try to get it jump started, and I figured out the unused sprinkler system.

I still have what I consider a "weed problem" but I have neighbors whom I get them all from. It would be solved if I got out there earlier and dropped Corn Meal on the lawn before the seeds sprouted, but again that budget.
Corn meal inhibits the ability of seeds to sprout, and is a very good pre-emergent. Don't put it on grass seed, it wont sprout.

Those are my thoughts. Mix and match.
Be careful though. You may end up with a rain forest that you can watch growing. I've had to mow 2x a week when we got significant rainfall.

 

[Drew99GT]

I looked into soybean or corn meal and for the amount I need, the cost is 3 times what I can get DHPW organic fertilizer for. I guess I'm gonna have to bite the bullet and use the best organic fertilizer, and lots of it, along with the kelp/humic acid concentrate I bought.

 

[doitmyself]

We need more information. What does the rest of your soil test report show.

 

[Donald]

How about horse or cow manure from a local farm?

 

[Drew99GT]

I used a soil PH test and that's it. I've been told that is the main problem with soil in my area is high PH levels/lack of organic matter.

 

[walk23]

Organic all the way ! For the last 4 years I've used Natures Lawn and poultry fertilizers. I see more earthworms, butterflies and helpful insects. It's taken some time but my lawn is healthier and stays that way than my neighbors who used synthetic ferts. Weeds are a lot less, though I do use organic weed killers too. It does take several seasons to see the benefits and the usage does dwindle over time, less ferts needed.

 

[warrior]

Organic fertilizers are more harmful to the environment. Also, what is a synthetic fertilizer? Everyone...please go take organic chemistry before you call something organic. This used to be a great science based website.

 

[SteveSRT8]

The word "organic" has become very marketable and thus diluted in its accuracy.

Smart companies are re-writing the rules to allow them to label their product "organic" as they can charge more for it!

 

[crw]

Well, a few points here. Synthetic (bags of granular stuff) are going to raise your salts, as will manures. With soil like yours, you are right to be concerned about salts. I have a similar situation here in Idaho.

I've started using fish emulsion in the garden much more, and the results are good. I'd consider spraying fish on the lawn. The cost of those bags of granular stuff is so high now, I would think (although I have not calculated it) that it would be cost effective to go all fish.

 

[Drew99GT]

I just got back from a local garden center and the guy working there was fairly knowledgeable and said to add a bag of chelated iron/sulfur mix as it will lower the PH levels. I'll see what that does.

 

[crw]

Hmmm... The sulfur will lower pH, over a long time. Iron will not, but may help with some greening...

I grow giant pumpkins as a hobby, so I know a little bit about this stuff.

Even with sulfur, the trouble you will have is that you can't really mix it into your soil when you are dealing with a lawn. It does not dissolve.

About 2.5 years ago I bought a ton (literally, 2000 pounds) of sulfur and have been incorporating it into my garden soil ever since. In the process I've put some on my lawn... that yellow stuff just sits there and does not work it's way into the soil. For me it was elemental sulfur... you might get a bag that is more easily dissolved, maybe.

That leads to the other consideration... you need a LOT of sulfur to make any real difference.

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: warrior
Organic fertilizers are more harmful to the environment.

How?

 

[Doog]

I use organic chemicals.

 

[ericgcollyer]

I live in an area that has the exact same issue. High clay alkaline soils. Also, I am an environmental science major (just graduated last week, so I haven't yet forgotten what I learned in college). With these types of soils, there are two main problems. 1. Lack of nutrients and 2. Lack of organic matter. I generally use two methods to help solve this issue.
1. For the nutrient problem I generally use synthetic fertilizers. I mix it myself because I can buy the granular for cheap in bulk (you need landscape management certification to do this), but I use a mixture virtually identical to Scotts Turf builder. You should be able to simply purchase that. Over a few years, there has not been salt build up.
2. Organic matter. I have a mulching mower that simply leaves the cut particles on the soil. This is plenty of Organic matter for my grass. I generally prefer to add mulch to my lawn for several reasons. Mainly, it encourages microbes and worms to incorporate this matter back into the soil and makes the soil less clayey. As per adding the powders, they may or may not do well. Those powders are for nutrients, whereas mulch helps with the soil texture.
(3) I know I didn't mention a third thing that I do, but I should say that if you remulch your lawn, you need significantly less fertilizer. The grass can simply cannibalize itself and get most of its nutrients. I typically fertilize about once a year (would do it twice a year if we didn't have 6 months of winter).
As per the synthetic vs organic debate, as long as you dont over apply, there is not too much difference with regards to the environment.

 

[doitmyself]

EDIT: excellent advice eric ^^^^^^^


Originally Posted By: Drew99GT
I just got back from a local garden center and the guy working there was fairly knowledgeable and said to add a bag of chelated iron/sulfur mix as it will lower the PH levels. I'll see what that does.


I have to laugh when people use the terms lawn care and organic in the same sentence. Lawns are nearly as unnatural as paved parking lots. However, applying moderate, sound lawn management principles using either/or/both synthetic and "organic" amendments can reduce the over application of unneeded chemicals and resulting pollution dramatically.

Do we BITOGER's trust the counter guys for oil recommendations? NO (They seem knowledgeable too).

Do we (the educated ones) take the shotgun approach by trying different oil/fuel additives to fix our mechanical/visual engine problems? NO (except Artem

)

Do we adjust our oil use by getting a used oil analysis with only one parameter measured? NO.

Why is everyone here trying to manage soil health with no basis to make any decisions???

Go to the Colorado State University Turf Extension Program and learn who to tap for knowledge applicable to your conditions: http://csuturf.colostate.edu/Pages/extension.htm

Go to the Colorado State University Soils Testing Lab and get a REAL (complete) soil analysis completed (use correct sampling technique): http://www.soiltestinglab.colostate.edu/index.html

Educate yourself, then choose how you want to maintain your lawn.

- "Organic" amendments can mess up soil health every bit as much as "synthetic" fertilizers. I.E., the compost made and sold by Michigan State has a PH of about 9, way too high to use as an amendment. I looked into a poultry compost product nearby and discovered that their all natural product was high in phosphorous.

- There are high quality slow release lawn fertilizers that will last from 2 months up to the entire season (One AP Fertilzer), so you are spoon feeding nutrients when needed and salt concentrations remain low.

- Returning your clipping is the first, easy "organic" method you should be using. You could start out using a moderate amount of both systems, and as your soil becomes healthier and you become more proficient in the system you choose, you will rely less on "synthetic" chemicals. Last time I looked, research was actually supporting the possible good effects of various biostimulants (fish emusions, etc.), as opposed to just being snake oil.

- 90% prilled sulfur does dissolve: http://www.tigersul.com/resources/tiger-faqs.html (use the correct product for the application).

Best of luck! The lawn care industry has done to lawn maintenance what Jiffy Lube has done to oil changes.

 

[ericgcollyer]

For lawns, Humus (not Hummus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humus) is a great way to reduce the Ph of your lawn. Actually, It does not really reduce the Ph, but rather creates an excellent buffer (increases it's CEC capacity to put it in chemical terms). This allows the lawn to hold more nutrients for a longer period of time. This means that fertilizers will be more effective since they have a longer time to break up and give the lawn a chance to absorb them. The real problem with alkaline soils is that the water we tend to water it with is basic. So no matter what we put on them, the water we use will always make the pH rise again. I wouldn't wast time with pH, its too difficult to change, unless you want to water your lawn with Distilled water

.
I know this wasn't the main point of your post. I am sure that sulfur works great for the garden, but it does not work so well for lawns in places with alkaline soils.

 

[ericgcollyer]

+1 for the grass clippings. I mentioned this earlier, but cannot stress how important this is. Regardless of your soil, regardless of where you live, regardless of your climate, this is the single best thing you can do for your lawn.

Also, I agree with your statement about organic lawns. Lawns are the single most water dependent crops in the U.S.

 

[ericgcollyer]

Originally Posted By: doitmyself
EDIT: excellent advice eric ^^^^^^^


Nice advice yourself. I was going to suggest Utah State Universities extension program, but Colorado has the same issues and therefore the same solutions.

 

[cchase]

Compost with a pH of 9 would probably be great around here, with a soil pH well to the acid side of things. Can't put enough lime down.