its not my intention to start a major discussion about whats the best, but rather whats the best for my needs. i have a 2005 dodge ram 2500 with the 5.9 cummins. i drive a 70/30 mix of city/highway driving. i rarely haul a load and the heaviest i do tow is a 3000 lb boat. an amsoil bmk25 bypass kit will installed shortly. ive got a bully dog cai, bully dog pmt (which is run about 75% of the time at the stock level) and also have a baldwin water seperator and cat 2 mic fuel filters. i see that the max recommended time interval to run the oil per amsoil is 25k/1 yr. i only drive about 12k/yr though. i currently run delvac which is $11/ gal where as amsoil and redline are 3-4 times that. if i can only run the oil for one year it makes no sense to go with syn in my opinion. any advice is welcomed.
synthetic vs dino...whats best for me?
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dnewton3
Staff member
Welcome new member!
I commend you an being able to clearly define your condition and limits. That's refreshing, to say the least! The fact that you can do this in your first post is that much more amazing!
As you seem to recognize, there is not a one-size-fits-all answer. What is more appropriate is to define your desired maintenance plan, and then pick products that support and compliment that plan.
Since you have a 2005 truck, it's likley your warranty has expired on the engine. So the topic of warranty is moot; anything that goes wrong is on your bill, and so appeasing the warranty conditions for an annual OCI really isn't requried any longer. That being the case, you could greatly extend your OCI to perhaps 2 or 3 or 4 years, use UOAs for validation, and consider using synthetics.
If you want to OCI anually, I'd just do dino, and probably not even use the BP filter, and limit my OCI's to 6k miles; making two per year. In fact, using a quality oil and a quality full-flow filter might just get you to 10k+ miles on dino! It's been done with some frequency in Dmax engines, and ISBs that are well cared for can get there at times as well. I would caution you to use UOAs as verification a few times before you blindly go that far on dino. It can be done, but it needs to be done with caution.
It all comes down to a few things:
1) maintaining a level of safe, effective lube condition
2) seeking the lowest cost OCI
3) keeping the maintenance task as easy as practical
As long as you keep the oil healthy, it's likely the engine will stay healthy. This can be accomplished by either "super filtering" (bypass filters) or frequent oil changes. There are, by now, bazillions of UOAs that support this concept. The bottom line is to keep contamination under control. You can either filter it out, or flush it out; they achieve the same result.
So, with that in mind, you now come down to cost. If you're driving 40k mile a year, and downtime is costly to your operation, then synthetics and bypass make sense, because you can greatly extend the OCI and get good ROI. If the oil/filters cost 4x more money, and you can get 4x more duration out of your OCI, then you've kept the costs equal, and saved downtime, thereby making the maintenance tasks easier. Or, if you drive 15k miles a year or less, you can save a lot of money by having to do only one or two dino OCIs with a "normal" full flow filter, and nothing else.
I cannot recall how much oil an ISB holds, but let's use my Dmax as an example:
First, I'm still under warranty, so I must do at least one annual OCI, even though I run about 7k miles a year. I will not compromise my warranty by choice, so I must OCI. My truck takes 10 qrts oil and a "normal" Wix/NG filter. That will run me around $25 per OCI. How so cheap? Because I shop BOGOF sales, and they are out there, if you shop in advance. I'm not brand loyal; I use any quality brand name I can find on sale. I got Delvac 1300 last year for $6.50/gallon! Add in a filter sourced from Napa during their annual 40% off filter sale at $7, and I'm in for an inexpensive OCI that can last me up to 10k miles. Or, I could use synthetics and bypass filters, run my cost up to around $100 for that same Which makes more sense? As long as my UOAs show that the oil and engine conditions are safe, the clear winner in my use is the dino/normal filter. Why spend 3x or 4x more money for the same results? (note: the range of 3x to 4x acknowledges that some folks like me can and do find good sales. If you're not inclined to do as such, the savings may not be as great. However, I try to be fair; what I am comparing is cost to cost. You can find both dino and synthetic on sale, or at retail price. But the RATIO is typically about 3x to 4x, product dependent.)
Synthetics and bypass filtration are fiscal tools to extend the OCI, thereby increasing your ROI. To make them viable and pay off, you must extend the OCI out far enough to equal or surpass the investment. Period.
I'm not saying one way is "best" for all situations; I'm saying that you need to define you prescribed plan, pick your products that compliment that plan, and stick to it. You're already well on your way with that understanding. Now, sit down, pick the plan, do the math, and commit! If it is your intention to OCI anually, and you're less than 15k miles, I suspect you'll find that one or two dino runs will suffice very nicely, and make for easy, simple maintenance, and your ISB will still last forever.
And again, welcome!
I commend you an being able to clearly define your condition and limits. That's refreshing, to say the least! The fact that you can do this in your first post is that much more amazing!
As you seem to recognize, there is not a one-size-fits-all answer. What is more appropriate is to define your desired maintenance plan, and then pick products that support and compliment that plan.
Since you have a 2005 truck, it's likley your warranty has expired on the engine. So the topic of warranty is moot; anything that goes wrong is on your bill, and so appeasing the warranty conditions for an annual OCI really isn't requried any longer. That being the case, you could greatly extend your OCI to perhaps 2 or 3 or 4 years, use UOAs for validation, and consider using synthetics.
If you want to OCI anually, I'd just do dino, and probably not even use the BP filter, and limit my OCI's to 6k miles; making two per year. In fact, using a quality oil and a quality full-flow filter might just get you to 10k+ miles on dino! It's been done with some frequency in Dmax engines, and ISBs that are well cared for can get there at times as well. I would caution you to use UOAs as verification a few times before you blindly go that far on dino. It can be done, but it needs to be done with caution.
It all comes down to a few things:
1) maintaining a level of safe, effective lube condition
2) seeking the lowest cost OCI
3) keeping the maintenance task as easy as practical
As long as you keep the oil healthy, it's likely the engine will stay healthy. This can be accomplished by either "super filtering" (bypass filters) or frequent oil changes. There are, by now, bazillions of UOAs that support this concept. The bottom line is to keep contamination under control. You can either filter it out, or flush it out; they achieve the same result.
So, with that in mind, you now come down to cost. If you're driving 40k mile a year, and downtime is costly to your operation, then synthetics and bypass make sense, because you can greatly extend the OCI and get good ROI. If the oil/filters cost 4x more money, and you can get 4x more duration out of your OCI, then you've kept the costs equal, and saved downtime, thereby making the maintenance tasks easier. Or, if you drive 15k miles a year or less, you can save a lot of money by having to do only one or two dino OCIs with a "normal" full flow filter, and nothing else.
I cannot recall how much oil an ISB holds, but let's use my Dmax as an example:
First, I'm still under warranty, so I must do at least one annual OCI, even though I run about 7k miles a year. I will not compromise my warranty by choice, so I must OCI. My truck takes 10 qrts oil and a "normal" Wix/NG filter. That will run me around $25 per OCI. How so cheap? Because I shop BOGOF sales, and they are out there, if you shop in advance. I'm not brand loyal; I use any quality brand name I can find on sale. I got Delvac 1300 last year for $6.50/gallon! Add in a filter sourced from Napa during their annual 40% off filter sale at $7, and I'm in for an inexpensive OCI that can last me up to 10k miles. Or, I could use synthetics and bypass filters, run my cost up to around $100 for that same Which makes more sense? As long as my UOAs show that the oil and engine conditions are safe, the clear winner in my use is the dino/normal filter. Why spend 3x or 4x more money for the same results? (note: the range of 3x to 4x acknowledges that some folks like me can and do find good sales. If you're not inclined to do as such, the savings may not be as great. However, I try to be fair; what I am comparing is cost to cost. You can find both dino and synthetic on sale, or at retail price. But the RATIO is typically about 3x to 4x, product dependent.)
Synthetics and bypass filtration are fiscal tools to extend the OCI, thereby increasing your ROI. To make them viable and pay off, you must extend the OCI out far enough to equal or surpass the investment. Period.
I'm not saying one way is "best" for all situations; I'm saying that you need to define you prescribed plan, pick your products that compliment that plan, and stick to it. You're already well on your way with that understanding. Now, sit down, pick the plan, do the math, and commit! If it is your intention to OCI anually, and you're less than 15k miles, I suspect you'll find that one or two dino runs will suffice very nicely, and make for easy, simple maintenance, and your ISB will still last forever.
And again, welcome!
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Personally, with the deals available in the Rebate, Sales, and Specials section, I would think that it would be cheaper to just use a big name conventional oil, like Delo 400, Delvac 1300, or Rotella, and just change it twice a year (every 6K). When you get your bypass installed, you could probably stretch even a quality dino oil to 8-9K-BUT, after you factor in the cost of oil analysis, and filter element replacements, and more expensive synthetic oil-I'm not sure you'd come out ahead.
The severe service interval is 7500 and the regular is 15000. would it be unreasonable to run a dino with the bypass for 15k and then perform a used oil analysis at that point?
IMO you don't put the miles on your truck per year to benefit from a bypass filter reguardless what Amsoil literature tells. There are many posted used oil analysis posted here that shows how the oils hold up in use. You have to do what ever turns you on because it is fun.
dnewton3
Staff member
I was unaware of the OCI service factors.
If the ISB can go 15k miles "normal" service on dino oil and normal filters, then I'd say do one annual OCI with dino and be done with it. The low cost and ease of service is hard to beat.
I would suggest utilizing a few UOAs to set your mind at ease that it's working well. Perhaps run 7.5k miles, check oil, and hopefully continue on that same load. Then, check at 10k miles, then 12.5k miles. At that point, you should be at/near the annual OCI. That should tell you how capable the "normal" system is or is not. It's a bit costly up front, but once you establish a comfort zone for the OCI, the savings quickly add up.
If the ISB can go 15k miles "normal" service on dino oil and normal filters, then I'd say do one annual OCI with dino and be done with it. The low cost and ease of service is hard to beat.
I would suggest utilizing a few UOAs to set your mind at ease that it's working well. Perhaps run 7.5k miles, check oil, and hopefully continue on that same load. Then, check at 10k miles, then 12.5k miles. At that point, you should be at/near the annual OCI. That should tell you how capable the "normal" system is or is not. It's a bit costly up front, but once you establish a comfort zone for the OCI, the savings quickly add up.
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What about a synthetic blend? I can get annual oil change intervals out of Schaeffer's #700 15W-40 on my Cummins ISB.I know it can be hard to find locally, I'm fortunate to have a retailer close by that carries it, $20/gal. Less than full synthetic, a little more than straight dino. PAO content is 20-25% if I remember correctly.
I don't know if this still holds true, but in the past if you want to stock up, you can order over $300 worth of product from a dealer and receive wholesale pricing and free shipping.
I have just learned of Brad Penn oils, sounds like they have a 15W-40 blend as well that looks cost effective.
Just a suggestion.
I don't know if this still holds true, but in the past if you want to stock up, you can order over $300 worth of product from a dealer and receive wholesale pricing and free shipping.
I have just learned of Brad Penn oils, sounds like they have a 15W-40 blend as well that looks cost effective.
Just a suggestion.
By-pass filters provide better protection, no many how many or how few miles you drive. So I recommend installing it, since you already have it.
I do not have an opinion on whether to use conventional or synthetic oil, or what OCI to use. However, most of the experts are moving away from the once-a-year minimum frequency -- as long as you occasionally drive long enough, to get the engine hot enough, to boil off any condensation in the oil.
I do not have an opinion on whether to use conventional or synthetic oil, or what OCI to use. However, most of the experts are moving away from the once-a-year minimum frequency -- as long as you occasionally drive long enough, to get the engine hot enough, to boil off any condensation in the oil.
dnewton3
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Tornado Red
By-pass filters provide better protection, no many how many or how few miles you drive. So I recommend installing it, since you already have it.
Depends upon how you define "better". It extends the uselful life of the oil, but not necessarily the equipment. If you are meaning to say that "better" = less wear, then you've not defined the conditions for judgement well enough. If low wear is what you seek, then frequent OCIs can accomplish the same task. Many, many UOAs exist that show this, and my own statistical analysis confirms it. Reduced wear is not "unique" to bypass filtration.
You can either filter out, or flush out, contaminants. Two means to the same end. The same level of performance (outputs) can be achieved by manipulating the controlables (inputs). What can make a large difference is the costs involved.
But that's a topic to be left for another sub-forum. Been discussed many times.
By-pass filters provide better protection, no many how many or how few miles you drive. So I recommend installing it, since you already have it.
Depends upon how you define "better". It extends the uselful life of the oil, but not necessarily the equipment. If you are meaning to say that "better" = less wear, then you've not defined the conditions for judgement well enough. If low wear is what you seek, then frequent OCIs can accomplish the same task. Many, many UOAs exist that show this, and my own statistical analysis confirms it. Reduced wear is not "unique" to bypass filtration.
You can either filter out, or flush out, contaminants. Two means to the same end. The same level of performance (outputs) can be achieved by manipulating the controlables (inputs). What can make a large difference is the costs involved.
But that's a topic to be left for another sub-forum. Been discussed many times.
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