Synthetic PS fluid turned seeps to leaks--What to do?

[TallPaul]

I finally put Redline PS fluid in the '92 Aerostar (108,000 miles) because I was getting a rough (like a chatter/stutter) steer down in the wheel area at low speed when very hot. I thought the Redline might cure that (takes heat better), but what happened is that what were formerly fluid seeps, turned into leaks with the Redline fluid (cause and effect or mere coincidence?). I can't find the leaks as it is nearly impossible to get at anything is this vehicle. So my question is this:

Should I add some power steering stop leak (and what brand) or should I switch it back to conventional PS fluid (Type F in this case) in an attempt to stop the leak (or more correctly return the leak to a seep)?

Note that the Redline PS fluid is spec'ed for Type F and many other spec's also. And BTW, one place it is not leaking is the shaft into the rack which was cured by AutoRx last year. That tells me the leak I have now must not be a seal related thing as the Auto Rx would have cured it back then.

 

[Gary Allan]

I don't have a recommendation for you ..but I do have a question. Did RL cure the condition that you put it in there for?

I would leave it in a while and see if it stops on its own (is this a recommendation?). How severe is this, anyway? We've seen oil consumption when changing chemistries before ...why not here too?

 

[TallPaul]

It did it after the Redline was in, but maybe it will take a little while to improve. Leak is not so bad as to run low and burn up the pump so long as I check it regularly and top up as needed. Thing is, a little bit of fluid can look pretty bad on the floor. The actual puddle may be 3 inches but the stain spreads. I do like your idea/sort-of-recommendation of giving it more time. At this point it probably can't hurt to wait and see. Thanks.

 

[Gary Allan]

Park it on cardboard for a week or two. Grinding oil dry in with your heel works well if you get to it quick enough.

[ July 01, 2005, 10:07 AM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]

 

[TallPaul]

quote:

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Originally posted by Gary Allan:
Park it on cardboard for a week or two. Grinding oil dry in with your heel works well if you get to9 it quick enough.

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Yep, I have the heel grind routine down pretty good, but I'm going to get the cardboard in place tonight.

At least (thanks to the water injection) the horrible ignition ping is gone!

.

 

[unDummy]

I don't care for RL PS fluid. Its seemed to make more noise. Specs show that it is thinner then ATF.

To slow down the leak, use any PS fluid with stop leak in it. Prestone/Valvoline/STP...come to mind and have worked in several vehicles that I've used them in.

Or use a thicker fluid like Redline D4 ATF or their high temp ATF.

I've also used Lucas PS stop leak. Try 1-2 ounces the next time you're low. It works well but don't overdose(full bottle) because you'll have belt squeal or loss of power assist when icy cold out.

 

[TallPaul]

Thanks unDummy. The RL PS is pretty thin at 6.4 cSt (100C) whereas the D4, which I run in the auto transmission, is 7.5. But it is supposed to take Type F fluid. Redline has a Type F (their Synthetic Racing ATF), but it is 10 cSt, which probably is overkill, though mixing some in with the regular RL PS may be just the ticket. Maybe the stop leak is the way to go, but I saw some Casite Power Steering Honey with stop leak, but it was not "honey," rather it was watery thin.

 

[JohnBrowning]

I would top off with the Redline until it is gone. Then once the Redline is gone if it is still leaking start useing D4 if you have it on hand. Is it leaking from the resovoir gasket where the res mates up with the pump? THis is where most ford pumps leak from. If so just replace the resovoir gasket and be done with it!

 

[TallPaul]

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
I would top off with the Redline until it is gone. Then once the Redline is gone if it is still leaking start useing D4 if you have it on hand. Is it leaking from the resovoir gasket where the res mates up with the pump? THis is where most ford pumps leak from. If so just replace the resovoir gasket and be done with it!

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Thanks. D4 is not in spec for older Ford PS units. I can go with the Type F Redline which I can get locally on order in a few days, or I see a Pep Boys Coupon for Maxlife Power Steering Stop Leak, so could put some of that in there. As for replacing the gasket, the shop will have to do that. I won't tear into it that far.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Tallpall, I was not recomending you go out and buy D4 just for this! I thought you had it on hand already so it would be convient for you to use. If it is leaking I would fix it first becasue any thing you put back in may leak out as well. I would just some decent Mercon or Type F wich ever you have on hand or can get cheaply!! It makes no sense to put an expensive fluid in just so it can leak out!!! If you have already AUto-Rx'ed it and have run Redline P/S fluid through then nothing short of repairing it is going to fix it! Both of the products you have used in it are top notch!

The resovoir gasket if tht is were it is leaking is probably just shot. The thin P/S fluid is probably just thin enough to get past a bad spot in the gasket. This is why it was weeping before with the thicker fluid.

 

[TallPaul]

Oh I do have D4 stocked for the transmission. I am going to run with Gary and Dave at Redline's advice to wait a while to see what happens. The thicker fluid sounds like a good way to go. If I can get it back to seeping like before with no noticable dripping, then I won't worry about a mechaincal fix.

 

[TallPaul]

I checked out the Lucas Power Steering Stop Leak and it is about 45 cSt, so it would not take much to thicken the Redline. Also, one site said it is not a seal sweller, but builds a layer on the seal to close the gap:

quote:

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Lucas Power Steering Stop leak is unlike many other additives that 'puff up' the seals in order to affect a repair. That approach can only be temporary ,because the solvent eventually destroys the seal.It contains no solvent. Power steering Stop Leak sticks to the seal and builds up a protective additive layer.

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This sounds good, kind of like the false seal that is in place with petroleum fluid and I get to keep the Redline. Win-win? Or maybe its, nothing to lose.

 

[TallPaul]

Thanks TheTanSedan, Good advice because I did the ARX last fall and it cured a leak where the steering shaft goes into the rack, but did not cure the seeps. So I figure the Lucas has a different approach and may be worth a shot.

 

[TheTanSedan]

Just run some ARX in it. Unless the seal leak is at the sector shaft (worm-gear, SAGINAW-type), ARX has worked for me on two quarter-century old 100m mile boxes.

"Stop leak" just slowed it down. You name the brand, I've tried it. LUCAS might have been better than the rest, bout only ARX seemed to fix it for good (one, a '79 FORD Fairmont, the other a '71 Chrysler Newport).

As to noise with RL PSF, try some LUBEGUARD. It "cured" the cold start "howl" in low-speed, manuever-out-of-the-garage-in-the-mornings.

I love RL, but I love SCHAEFFERS 204-Supreme ATF for Dex-Merc spec steering boxes much more. If it is FORD spec, then try the 204-S with an ARX maintenance dose after flushing/refilling.

 

[TallPaul]

The Lucas has been in there for several weeks now and maybe 500 miles. No better. Worse yet, today it got louder and I noticed more of the roughness in the steering. I looked in the fluid reservoir and saw the fluid was foaming. What gives? Is it foaming because the rack is going south? What to do? Should I try going back to conventional Type F?

 

[punisher]

Fix it. Stop worrying about additives and fix it. Generic Motorcraft Mercon/Dexron was the usual fill for all power steering apps (FoMoCo) in our shop.

Ford C3 pumps leak, racks leak, power steering lines leak at the line/hose junctions. Just one of those things that additives/different fluids will not cure. time to get dirty, or pay someone to get dirty.

Foaming is uusually caused by low fluid levels/aeration.

 

[TallPaul]

You are right punisher. I should have ran from the Lucas PS Stop Leak when the company tech person told me he had a truck that was very hard to steer until it warmed up, but one morning when it was cold he put in the Lucas stuff at the side of the road and immediately it steered fine. What was I thinking when I let that line of crap go by. I was focused on it being thick an maybe taking up slop in the rack. I will never buy another Lucas product. In fact, I wonder if the Lucas is causing the foaming? Well, no harm changing the fluid. Only a few bucks for some good fluid.

 

[TallPaul]

quote:

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Originally posted by TallPaul:
I will never buy another Lucas product.

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eats words

So the owner of my '84 F150 with 210,000 miles on the original PS unit and fluid told me yesterday it leaked out. He poured more PS fluid in and it ran right out on the ground. He puts a bottle Lucas PS Stop Leak in and it .... STOPS LEAKING! What! Mine just seeps and the Lucas is no help. His leaks like a seive and the Lucas stops it cold. What gives?

 

[unDummy]

Different leaks respond differently to "stop leak" products.

Time for an engine "power washing" and to locate the exact point of that PS leakage.

 

[TallPaul]

Oh well, it didn't work after all. He parked the truck and 9 hours later went out and had to pour another bottle of Lucas in. At least mine leaks so slowly that I hardly need to top it up very often, though it does mark the pavement (cardboard now). I am going to keep driving it as is for now.