Does MoS2 remain "plated" on metal surfaces after shutdown, or does it need heat for that?
Synthetic Oil & Dry-Start Issues
- Thread starter turnbowm
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Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
...What caused this concern? Are you hearing cold start engine noise?
Have a 2.4L GDI with 15K miles on it and, from day one, have had considerable valvetrain noise for the first 2-3 seconds on cold engine startup, especially after the car has been inoperative for several days. Recently decided to switch from dealer conventional oil to synthetic (PUP) and found that startup noise was noticeably reduced. Others have reported the opposite.
Just trying to understand why synthetic worked better in my case while some experience better results with conventional.
...What caused this concern? Are you hearing cold start engine noise?
Have a 2.4L GDI with 15K miles on it and, from day one, have had considerable valvetrain noise for the first 2-3 seconds on cold engine startup, especially after the car has been inoperative for several days. Recently decided to switch from dealer conventional oil to synthetic (PUP) and found that startup noise was noticeably reduced. Others have reported the opposite.
Just trying to understand why synthetic worked better in my case while some experience better results with conventional.
Dry starts don't seem to significantly affect wear IMO. My old 92 Suburban rarely gets driven - maybe 5 or 6 times a year, yet still turned in a good UOA on 5 year old M1.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4190879/1992_Surburban_Big_Block_-_M1_
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4190879/1992_Surburban_Big_Block_-_M1_
Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
Originally Posted By: turnbowm
recent information
Can you please link to this "information"? I'd sure like to see anything that's applicable to modern engines, with modern oil, utilizing any legitmate laboratory/bench test.
P.S. - The internet is full of forums that have some guy who'll tell you X or Y oil is better based upon their anecdotal observations and ingrained biases.
Per your request...
One other issue is the trend toward Group II through
Group IV base oils, which leaves the need for finding added
lubricity. Zhmud explains, “Group I base oils have sufficiently
high content of polar species (heterocycles, aromatics)
and demonstrate superior lubricity as compared
to Group II-IV base oils that contain predominantly fully
saturated nonpolar hydrocarbon chains. Thus, greater use
of boundary lubricity additives will be helpful to boost
performance.”
http://www.elevance.com/documents/200909_techbeat.pdf
Originally Posted By: turnbowm
recent information
Can you please link to this "information"? I'd sure like to see anything that's applicable to modern engines, with modern oil, utilizing any legitmate laboratory/bench test.
P.S. - The internet is full of forums that have some guy who'll tell you X or Y oil is better based upon their anecdotal observations and ingrained biases.
Per your request...
One other issue is the trend toward Group II through
Group IV base oils, which leaves the need for finding added
lubricity. Zhmud explains, “Group I base oils have sufficiently
high content of polar species (heterocycles, aromatics)
and demonstrate superior lubricity as compared
to Group II-IV base oils that contain predominantly fully
saturated nonpolar hydrocarbon chains. Thus, greater use
of boundary lubricity additives will be helpful to boost
performance.”
http://www.elevance.com/documents/200909_techbeat.pdf
If noise equaled wear, then the cars that are regularly being started in 0F and below temps would grenade in short order. But it's funny watching guys from southern states panic about cold starts
Oops sorry, it's a dry start, I'm no being dramatic enough lol.
Oops sorry, it's a dry start, I'm no being dramatic enough lol.
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
If noise equaled wear, then the cars that are regularly being started in 0F and below temps would grenade in short order. But it's funny watching guys from southern states panic about cold starts
Oops sorry, it's a dry start, I'm no being dramatic enough lol.
No panic here, just trying to understand the properties of various lubricating oils and how it relates to engine performance.
If noise equaled wear, then the cars that are regularly being started in 0F and below temps would grenade in short order. But it's funny watching guys from southern states panic about cold starts
Oops sorry, it's a dry start, I'm no being dramatic enough lol.
No panic here, just trying to understand the properties of various lubricating oils and how it relates to engine performance.
Originally Posted By: turnbowm
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
...What caused this concern? Are you hearing cold start engine noise?
Have a 2.4L GDI with 15K miles on it and, from day one, have had considerable valvetrain noise for the first 2-3 seconds on cold engine startup, especially after the car has been inoperative for several days. Recently decided to switch from dealer conventional oil to synthetic (PUP) and found that startup noise was noticeably reduced. Others have reported the opposite.
Just trying to understand why synthetic worked better in my case while some experience better results with conventional.
See, it's engine dependent. It's the result of a design issue and MFG tolerances, etc. Some systems have less places for metal to accelerate and impact other metal w/o an oil cushion. We've all owned noisy engines and quiet ones. They mostly last the same duration, it's just the nature of the beast
As far as noise on start-up for a few seconds. Now you know that oil can make a difference, try another filter. Sometimes the ADBV design can help lessen the start-up noise too. I'd try a Napa Gold (WIX) and see what that does ...
As to the Northern Guys and Cold Starts vs Southern Guys and getting excited about noise; northern guys don't usually have cars or trucks that last long enough to worry about engine life in the longest runs (road salt). We do. I try to get close to 300,000 from an engine before overhaul. I mostly come up short. Usually into the later 200,000's. And yes, our family has owned some vehicles for close to 40 years before being sold. They get passed down or passed around
And we have pre-WW-II tractors that are not going anywhere any time soon. So engine life is a consideration. Got one buck-saw truck made from a 1937 Chevy still running. So we were taught to listen and fix stuff that does not sound "right". Maybe that's subjective. But you do what you were taught and it seems to work
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
...What caused this concern? Are you hearing cold start engine noise?
Have a 2.4L GDI with 15K miles on it and, from day one, have had considerable valvetrain noise for the first 2-3 seconds on cold engine startup, especially after the car has been inoperative for several days. Recently decided to switch from dealer conventional oil to synthetic (PUP) and found that startup noise was noticeably reduced. Others have reported the opposite.
Just trying to understand why synthetic worked better in my case while some experience better results with conventional.
See, it's engine dependent. It's the result of a design issue and MFG tolerances, etc. Some systems have less places for metal to accelerate and impact other metal w/o an oil cushion. We've all owned noisy engines and quiet ones. They mostly last the same duration, it's just the nature of the beast
As far as noise on start-up for a few seconds. Now you know that oil can make a difference, try another filter. Sometimes the ADBV design can help lessen the start-up noise too. I'd try a Napa Gold (WIX) and see what that does ...
As to the Northern Guys and Cold Starts vs Southern Guys and getting excited about noise; northern guys don't usually have cars or trucks that last long enough to worry about engine life in the longest runs (road salt). We do. I try to get close to 300,000 from an engine before overhaul. I mostly come up short. Usually into the later 200,000's. And yes, our family has owned some vehicles for close to 40 years before being sold. They get passed down or passed around
And we have pre-WW-II tractors that are not going anywhere any time soon. So engine life is a consideration. Got one buck-saw truck made from a 1937 Chevy still running. So we were taught to listen and fix stuff that does not sound "right". Maybe that's subjective. But you do what you were taught and it seems to work
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