Synthetic, Lithium, 5% Molybdenum grease needed

[Tempest]

The one thing I'd have to ask is, why would the engineer design such a thing? What advantage is there for the increased possibility of grease contamination?

If lube can flow from the wheel bearing area back to the joint area, then you drastically increase the chance of getting water/dirt into the joint, that has made it past the bearing seals. Especially on a 4 wheel drive truck, designed to be used off road.

Based on the diagram, I'd want some heavy, sticky grease in that bushing to prevent cross contamination.

 

[Rix]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
The one thing I'd have to ask is, why would the engineer design such a thing? What advantage is there for the increased possibility of grease contamination?

If lube can flow from the wheel bearing area back to the joint area, then you drastically increase the chance of getting water/dirt into the joint, that has made it past the bearing seals. Especially on a 4 wheel drive truck, designed to be used off road.

Based on the diagram, I'd want some heavy, sticky grease in that bushing to prevent cross contamination.

You mean you WOULDN'T want a grease that abosrbs water and degrades very quickly when it does?
Weird, me neither.

 

[erock]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
The one thing I'd have to ask is, why would the engineer design such a thing? What advantage is there for the increased possibility of grease contamination?


Which part of the design are you questioning? The bushing being the only physical separation rather than a proper seal?


In practice, by far the most common contamination is of the knuckle grease by gear oil leaking past the "axle seal" in the diagram.

 

[Tempest]

Quote:
In practice, by far the most common contamination is of the knuckle grease by gear oil leaking past the "axle seal" in the diagram.

Not really a surprise. The entire design, with the large ball and seals, looks very susceptible to contamination.

Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, in that the joint maybe easier to contaminate than the bearings??

I'd still rather not have them mix.

 

[IH8mush]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
Quote:
In practice, by far the most common contamination is of the knuckle grease by gear oil leaking past the "axle seal" in the diagram.

Not really a surprise. The entire design, with the large ball and seals, looks very susceptible to contamination.

Maybe I'm looking at it wrong, in that the joint maybe easier to contaminate than the bearings??

I'd still rather not have them mix.


Your right about not having the greases mix Tempest, but the thing about this design with it full of the proper #00 or #0 or #1 grease,

The thing is well sealed, very well, I tested a old Toyota axle with it not being vented to the atmosphere the thing can build positive air pressure in it,
Just a bit, but with that pressurized envoriment, nothing gets in,

Very well sealed with a fluid or close to fluid grease with #1

Now with a #2 grease not the same story the seal is dry ineffective and yes dirt, water all sorts of whatever is wiped in there,

On domestic axles which Dana recommends filling with 140 W oil,
I have rebuilt these axles that had a correct form of grease on one side, relatively clean,

On the #2 side, up to a inch build up of grit and dirt, because again the #2 grease is not of enough fluid nature to form the "Viscous seal"

With if full of the proper grease, these things will go for a long, long time,

well 30 years with the correct fluid,,

But yes your 100 % right no self respecting mechanical engineer would build a thing like that, where two greases can and will mix, and not seal from the 2,

And as far as contamination coming from the wheel bearings to the knuckle, highly unlikely with any form of grease,

The silly thing (Toyota) has 2 wheel oil seals, a primary wheel "Oil" seal and a 2nd Wheel oil seal to protect the primary wheel oil seal,

The 2nd oil seal is more or less just a dust seal, because inbetween these 2 oil seals is a drain, built into the spindle hub,

So real well sealed, better than any rig I have seen,,,

 

[IH8mush]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
The one thing I'd have to ask is, why would the engineer design such a thing? What advantage is there for the increased possibility of grease contamination?

If lube can flow from the wheel bearing area back to the joint area, then you drastically increase the chance of getting water/dirt into the joint, that has made it past the bearing seals. Especially on a 4 wheel drive truck, designed to be used off road.

Based on the diagram, I'd want some heavy, sticky grease in that bushing to prevent cross contamination.


Or Mr Tempest, like Mr Chewbacca is looking for fill it all up with the same grease,

Again this is Error #1 in the Toyota sales book,

Because the heavy sticky grease that does not flow, is lousy for the CV joint, very bad, should never be used,

So Mr Chewbacca, you made my day by finding that cross sectional drawing,

Now all we have to do is get some measurements the Od of a new axle, and the ID of the bushing, regardless with up to 2 lube grooves, a champher on the inboard thrust side the fluid grease will easily move thru

So along with these measurements I am hoping to come acrost one of these axles to rework soon,

and document upper bearing lubrication, (that drawing gives a good idea how close the upper bearing is to the spinning birf)

and document lube flow thru bushing,,,,

But the # should tell us as well,,,,

Very good

 

[erock]

Originally Posted By: IH8mush
But yes your 100 % right no self respecting mechanical engineer would build a thing like that, where two greases can and will mix, and not seal from the 2,




With the proper #2 grease, how would the grease from the knuckle and the grease from the wheel bearings EVER mix?

I'll answer for you: Only if the grease is contaminated with oil and it thins out. Is this a design flaw? I suppose that's a matter of opinion. Anything that addresses that problem would have other effects to consider.



I find it funny that you tout your grease as excelling in environments that are not well-sealed, because its high adhesion characteristic prevents leaks. But then you turn right around and claim that a knuckle that is obviously not well-sealed from the spindle was designed specifically to use this goop you sell because it will readily flow through that spindle that's not well-sealed?

If your own arguments contradict one another, the logical conclusion is that AT LEAST one of them is incorrect.

 

[IH8mush]

Originally Posted By: erock
Originally Posted By: IH8mush
But yes your 100 % right no self respecting mechanical engineer would build a thing like that, where two greases can and will mix, and not seal from the 2,




With the proper #2 grease, how would the grease from the knuckle and the grease from the wheel bearings EVER mix?

I'll answer for you: Only if the grease is contaminated with oil and it thins out. Is this a design flaw? I suppose that's a matter of opinion. Anything that addresses that problem would have other effects to consider.



I find it funny that you tout your grease as excelling in environments that are not well-sealed, because its high adhesion characteristic prevents leaks. But then you turn right around and claim that a knuckle that is obviously not well-sealed from the spindle was designed specifically to use this goop you sell because it will readily flow through that spindle that's not well-sealed?

If your own arguments contradict one another, the logical conclusion is that AT LEAST one of them is incorrect.



With the proper #2 grease,

Nope E-rock, this is not the proper grease,
Not suitable for this application,

While the #0 grease does not move when not in motion, when spinning for sure

Regardless it is the thinning of the grease do to the introduction of a incompatible one that the lube flow thru the bushing becomes the key ,

It is a route the semi fluid grease takes to mix with the incompatible grease that is introduced as per Toyota Sales FSM

Then it is also the route the thinned grease takes back out to leak thru the wiper seal,

You know this, this is why the Toyota Black Propagandist first as you stated #1 there is a spindle seal,

Then you argue that the bushing will not flow lube and cite your SM 420 manual tranny sealess input shaft as a Bushing similiar,

It is nothing like it, there are "Threads" counter spiraled on the shaft to keep the lube in the Tranny,

On and on,

So will just wait till I get another test axle,

 

[Rix]

ANOTHER test axle?
The first one you did is already leaking after 6 months.

 

[erock]

Originally Posted By: IH8mush
On and on,


On and on indeed.

If you're just going to keep repeating the same things over and over without even attempting to comprehend what I say, this is no longer a conversation.

Deuces.

 

[IH8mush]

Originally Posted By: Rix
ANOTHER test axle?
The first one you did is already leaking after 6 months.



Leaking,

Well remember the 3 stages of leaking Rixxer,

This axle is supposed to have Class 1 leakage to coat and protect the ball

Normal,

It is considered more like sweating, discharge, this is what you cannot get,

You see a factory filled axle and assume its leakage cause by axle seal failure

When if fact it is the #0 grease discharging,,,like it is supposed to,

And building up at the edges of travel,

Normal,

Desired to coat the ball protecting it,

 

[IH8mush]

Originally Posted By: erock
Originally Posted By: IH8mush
On and on,


On and on indeed.

If you're just going to keep repeating the same things over and over without even attempting to comprehend what I say, this is no longer a conversation.

Deuces.


Never has been a conversation, You "Obfuscate" and I try to shed some light on this,

 

[Rix]

Well... here's on of the ones I did. It isn't leaking YEARS later.

Nor is it worn out.
Not is it making noise.
Nor is it having problems of any kind.

Gee.

 

[Tempest]

Those seals must be really high quality. That ball has got to be easily covered in water, dirt, and muck which, one would think, abrade the seals and cause leaks.

 

[Rix]

It's 3 layers.
A steel scraper ring, a rubber wiper ring, and a felt wiper ring.
Then 2 steel plates lock it all into a groove in the back side of the knuckle.

 

[IH8mush]

Originally Posted By: Rix
It's 3 layers.
A steel scraper ring, a rubber wiper ring, and a felt wiper ring.
Then 2 steel plates lock it all into a groove in the back side of the knuckle.


What my Sales trained Toyota tech means by scraper ring is spacer ring,

Now on the Dana axles for Ford, Dodge ect, this steel spacer ring and rubber seal are integral and contain this lube better it would seem this photo is about 2 months into a rebuild, barely a trace of discharge,
After all the Dana brothers state to use a 140 W oil in the knuckle they built,

anyway this gave me a idea to provide even a thinner steering knuckle lube, basically for this application the thinner the better as long as it doesnt leak,

To be fair to the Toyota Wally axle it was in real bad shape, a deep groove in the ball, so a worst case situation,

But still even then the lube clings to the knuckle as it should,

 

[IH8mush]

So Rixxer

My Toyota Sales Trained Tech, Your answer as to why this axle with a overfilled 3rd member and semi fluid level below the seal

???

Your propagandist pals has a few hair brained theories as to why,

You simply state you dont know the history,?

Well looks like shes leaking huh, well it isnt the axle seal ??

So what it it ?

No drips so still class 1 ,, on a 94, ??

Really what in the world is going on here,,, not leaking into the knuckle from the axle seal,,

So here is what your saying then the axle seal fails 80-90w leaks into the knuckle, thins out a #2 grease then leaks back into the 3rd member overfills it and then

Stops leaking ?????????

NO, this discharge on the knuckle was caused by something else,

A Fluid Toyota of Japan filled it with, much more plausible,

Since all other manufactures that use this design state to use a oil, or a semifluid grease,,,

 

[IH8mush]

93 Chewbacca,

Here is the grease used for your closed steering knuckle

It does have 2.5% moly, it is not lithium and not #2 grade

#0 Flows but doesnt leak past class 1, even on a badly grooved and pitted axle,

Class 2 leakage is when drips form, Class 3 leakage is when you see these drips form and drop while inspecting,,,

Normal to have "Sweating and discharge" class 1,, Normal

 

[Rix]

Originally Posted By: IH8mush
93 Chewbacca,

Here is the grease used for your closed steering knuckle

It does have 2.5% moly, it is not lithium and not #2 grade

#0 Flows but doesnt leak past class 1, even on a badly grooved and pitted axle,

Class 2 leakage is when drips form, Class 3 leakage is when you see these drips form and drop while inspecting,,,

Normal to have "Sweating and discharge" class 1,, Normal

NOTHING of this consitancy came in a toyota solid axle from the factory.

 

[Rix]

There is VERY OBVIOUSLY contaminated gear oil.