Is there a picture of said bushing?
Synthetic, Lithium, 5% Molybdenum grease needed
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Originally Posted By: Tempest
Is there a picture of said bushing?
http://www.marlincrawler.com/axle/front-axle-parts/spindle-brass-axle-bushing
this is a replacement bushing,,
This bushing stock, factory, aftermarket, always have lube grooves,
Some only have 1 grove while most have 2
The inside edge of the bushing is camphered near the thrust surface, this allows lube into the grooves even if the axle is up against it,
This is key, this is a hard fought topic, I look at it and see the intent for lube flow,
Is there a picture of said bushing?
http://www.marlincrawler.com/axle/front-axle-parts/spindle-brass-axle-bushing
this is a replacement bushing,,
This bushing stock, factory, aftermarket, always have lube grooves,
Some only have 1 grove while most have 2
The inside edge of the bushing is camphered near the thrust surface, this allows lube into the grooves even if the axle is up against it,
This is key, this is a hard fought topic, I look at it and see the intent for lube flow,
It's just me, but those look like grooves designed to retain grease, rather than be a pass through. I would think a pass through would be a straight shot.
Like a key slot on a sheave.
Like a key slot on a sheave.
Originally Posted By: Tempest
It's just me, but those look like grooves designed to retain grease, rather than be a pass through. I would think a pass through would be a straight shot.
Like a key slot on a sheave.
Mr Tempest,
The grove is spiraled to evenly displace the lack of support the groove takes away,
If the grove was straight the bushing would have a "Dead spot"
for lack of a better term,
lubrication grooves in bushings are always spiraled for this reason,
It's just me, but those look like grooves designed to retain grease, rather than be a pass through. I would think a pass through would be a straight shot.
Like a key slot on a sheave.
Mr Tempest,
The grove is spiraled to evenly displace the lack of support the groove takes away,
If the grove was straight the bushing would have a "Dead spot"
for lack of a better term,
lubrication grooves in bushings are always spiraled for this reason,
here is some info
http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=158718&page=4
Helical grease groove,
but that is the basic rational not to put it in a straight line
would take away from the load capability of the bushing,
Evenly displaces it by the Helical or spiral pattern
http://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=158718&page=4
Helical grease groove,
but that is the basic rational not to put it in a straight line
would take away from the load capability of the bushing,
Evenly displaces it by the Helical or spiral pattern
Tempest is correct.
Why can EVERYONE see that but you, frank?
The grooves on the vertical face DO NOT meet the grooves in the bore. The grooves in the bore DO NOT extend through the bushing into the spindle cavity.
There is NO way your theory can be correct.
Why can EVERYONE see that but you, frank?
The grooves on the vertical face DO NOT meet the grooves in the bore. The grooves in the bore DO NOT extend through the bushing into the spindle cavity.
There is NO way your theory can be correct.
Originally Posted By: Rix
Tempest is correct.
Why can EVERYONE see that but you, frank?
The grooves on the vertical face DO NOT meet the grooves in the bore. The grooves in the bore DO NOT extend through the bushing into the spindle cavity.
There is NO way your theory can be correct.
No Rixxer,
May I remind you, the "Authority" on pirate stated as such
There is no provision in the Toyota axle to contain a fluid lube in the knuckle,
There is "No provision" actually if you have any grasp on Mechanical engineering when it comes to bushing design not only is their "No Provision" it is designed to do so,
I am afraid that you cant see it because your well, in the dark,
Clearly this bushing is designed for fluid flow, the grooves do extend thru the entire bushing the inboard side is chamfered to allow it,
This is a full floating axle, the axle has a min float spec,
most specifications are at .015, min float, for this style axle
The .015 clearance is to allow a lubrication to move in between the axle and bushing,
At time sure the axle will be right up against the thrust surface, thats why its there,
Mr Tempest may not be aware why bushing lube grooves are in a helical pattern but now he does,
Mr Chewbacca recognizes this aspect of the design, just re read this thread,
I am not the only one who sees this, it is obvious, hence
"Master of the Obvious"
Tempest is correct.
Why can EVERYONE see that but you, frank?
The grooves on the vertical face DO NOT meet the grooves in the bore. The grooves in the bore DO NOT extend through the bushing into the spindle cavity.
There is NO way your theory can be correct.
No Rixxer,
May I remind you, the "Authority" on pirate stated as such
There is no provision in the Toyota axle to contain a fluid lube in the knuckle,
There is "No provision" actually if you have any grasp on Mechanical engineering when it comes to bushing design not only is their "No Provision" it is designed to do so,
I am afraid that you cant see it because your well, in the dark,
Clearly this bushing is designed for fluid flow, the grooves do extend thru the entire bushing the inboard side is chamfered to allow it,
This is a full floating axle, the axle has a min float spec,
most specifications are at .015, min float, for this style axle
The .015 clearance is to allow a lubrication to move in between the axle and bushing,
At time sure the axle will be right up against the thrust surface, thats why its there,
Mr Tempest may not be aware why bushing lube grooves are in a helical pattern but now he does,
Mr Chewbacca recognizes this aspect of the design, just re read this thread,
I am not the only one who sees this, it is obvious, hence
"Master of the Obvious"
Here's a diagram of the exact assembly I have. I drew a red line that connects the Birfield joint grease area with the wheel bearing grease area.
It looks like it would be difficult for large amounts of lube to travel from the inner Birf area to the wheel bearing area because the only area that connects the two is the bushing labeled with the letter "A".
It looks like it would be difficult for large amounts of lube to travel from the inner Birf area to the wheel bearing area because the only area that connects the two is the bushing labeled with the letter "A".
That's precisely correct. If the grease/oil/whatever in the knuckle cavity was thin enough, it could flow via that path to the wheel bearings.
Frank claims that the bushing is designed to promote such flow, and hilariously claims to be able to justify that with "mechanical engineering" knowledge in the post above. That's funny because I AM a mechanical engineer, and he's wrong. The grooves on the thrust face and in the bore don't connect; there is no direct path for oil/grease except between the bushing and the machined stub shaft that it's supposed to be supporting.
Granted, with time and wear of the bushing, the clearance between the two will grow, making it easier for any goop in the knuckle to get into the spindle, but that certainly doesn't mean it was designed to do so.
Just out of curiosity, where did the picture come from?
Frank claims that the bushing is designed to promote such flow, and hilariously claims to be able to justify that with "mechanical engineering" knowledge in the post above. That's funny because I AM a mechanical engineer, and he's wrong. The grooves on the thrust face and in the bore don't connect; there is no direct path for oil/grease except between the bushing and the machined stub shaft that it's supposed to be supporting.
Granted, with time and wear of the bushing, the clearance between the two will grow, making it easier for any goop in the knuckle to get into the spindle, but that certainly doesn't mean it was designed to do so.
Just out of curiosity, where did the picture come from?
Just out of curiosity, where did the picture come from?
Very cool Mr Chewbacca,
A cross sectional drawing of the axle, This combined with measurements of the clearances will show the ability of lube flow,
That is not Toyota Sales information,
I was told by a member of the GMA a retired engineer, (GMA is Grease Monkey Association) That this would prove to folks that lube flow is possible, not only possible but intended,
Very Good find,
Now the area out lined in red shows the path it would take, with that cross sectional drawing, with some precise measurements,
Now the "Wally Axle" had .015 clearance at the bushing area, this of course is excessive,
I attempted to find any information about clearances maximum allowable from Toyota, they do not have any,
Now keep in mind this passage you have outlined comes into play when the factory semi fluid grease flows out to the bearings as shown, mixes with the intruding grease then thins out and the Oil then easily backflows out to the wiper seal and leaks out,
Wow, I wonder who drew up that cross sectional drawing very cool
Lets get some # along with that, min and max allowable,
Way cool
Very cool Mr Chewbacca,
A cross sectional drawing of the axle, This combined with measurements of the clearances will show the ability of lube flow,
That is not Toyota Sales information,
I was told by a member of the GMA a retired engineer, (GMA is Grease Monkey Association) That this would prove to folks that lube flow is possible, not only possible but intended,
Very Good find,
Now the area out lined in red shows the path it would take, with that cross sectional drawing, with some precise measurements,
Now the "Wally Axle" had .015 clearance at the bushing area, this of course is excessive,
I attempted to find any information about clearances maximum allowable from Toyota, they do not have any,
Now keep in mind this passage you have outlined comes into play when the factory semi fluid grease flows out to the bearings as shown, mixes with the intruding grease then thins out and the Oil then easily backflows out to the wiper seal and leaks out,
Wow, I wonder who drew up that cross sectional drawing very cool
Lets get some # along with that, min and max allowable,
Way cool
"Frank claims that the bushing is designed to promote such flow, and hilariously claims to be able to justify that with "mechanical engineering" knowledge in the post above"
E-rock,
This can easily be proven, next axle I redo I will prove 2 things,
Upper trunnion bearing lubrication
and Flow thru bushing with the factory type #0 semi fluid grease,
The correct fluid that lasts 30 years, easy,
E-rock,
This can easily be proven, next axle I redo I will prove 2 things,
Upper trunnion bearing lubrication
and Flow thru bushing with the factory type #0 semi fluid grease,
The correct fluid that lasts 30 years, easy,
Originally Posted By: erock
That's precisely correct. If the grease/oil/whatever in the knuckle cavity was thin enough, it could flow via that path to the wheel bearings.
Frank claims that the bushing is designed to promote such flow, and hilariously claims to be able to justify that with "mechanical engineering" knowledge in the post above. That's funny because I AM a mechanical engineer, and he's wrong. The grooves on the thrust face and in the bore don't connect; there is no direct path for oil/grease except between the bushing and the machined stub shaft that it's supposed to be supporting.
Granted, with time and wear of the bushing, the clearance between the two will grow, making it easier for any goop in the knuckle to get into the spindle, but that certainly doesn't mean it was designed to do so.
Just out of curiosity, where did the picture come from?
"That's funny because I AM a mechanical engineer,"
E-rock, your a "Black Propagandist"
So far your a Hati orphan rescuer ,
A Cancer fighting drug maker,
A Storm and Waste Water engineer,
And Now a "Mechanical Engineer"
HMM how do you even find the time to wrangle about grease with a grease monkey?
The Only thing I know for sure that you are is a "Black Propagandist"
Some how connected to the ever long reaching arm of the "Toyota on-line Black propaganda machine"
That's precisely correct. If the grease/oil/whatever in the knuckle cavity was thin enough, it could flow via that path to the wheel bearings.
Frank claims that the bushing is designed to promote such flow, and hilariously claims to be able to justify that with "mechanical engineering" knowledge in the post above. That's funny because I AM a mechanical engineer, and he's wrong. The grooves on the thrust face and in the bore don't connect; there is no direct path for oil/grease except between the bushing and the machined stub shaft that it's supposed to be supporting.
Granted, with time and wear of the bushing, the clearance between the two will grow, making it easier for any goop in the knuckle to get into the spindle, but that certainly doesn't mean it was designed to do so.
Just out of curiosity, where did the picture come from?
"That's funny because I AM a mechanical engineer,"
E-rock, your a "Black Propagandist"
So far your a Hati orphan rescuer ,
A Cancer fighting drug maker,
A Storm and Waste Water engineer,
And Now a "Mechanical Engineer"
HMM how do you even find the time to wrangle about grease with a grease monkey?
The Only thing I know for sure that you are is a "Black Propagandist"
Some how connected to the ever long reaching arm of the "Toyota on-line Black propaganda machine"
Chewbacca, your take on the situation is accurate.
The 2 cavities are not meant to share grease. If they were, there would be a LOT more design differences to expedite movement of said grease. The factory would have put the same stuff in the wheel bearings AND the knuckle, and they wouldn't have spec'd 2 different types of grease.
The Grooves int he spindle bushing do not act as a pump to move grease, they act only as a resevoir to hold it.
You have it correct.
The 2 cavities are not meant to share grease. If they were, there would be a LOT more design differences to expedite movement of said grease. The factory would have put the same stuff in the wheel bearings AND the knuckle, and they wouldn't have spec'd 2 different types of grease.
The Grooves int he spindle bushing do not act as a pump to move grease, they act only as a resevoir to hold it.
You have it correct.
Originally Posted By: Rix
Chewbacca, your take on the situation is accurate.
The 2 cavities are not meant to share grease. If they were, there would be a LOT more design differences to expedite movement of said grease. The factory would have put the same stuff in the wheel bearings AND the knuckle, and they wouldn't have spec'd 2 different types of grease.
The Grooves int he spindle bushing do not act as a pump to move grease, they act only as a resevoir to hold it.
You have it correct.
Throw in the towel Rixxer, now with this cross sectional drawing some measurements lube flow will be proven,
happens all the time, Toyota owners, mention "Hey the moly grease invaded my wheelbearings and washed out the grease I packed in there,,,
"Moly Greasers"
Dead give away of a brainwashed clueless clown,
"Moly Greasers"
Yes it does have moly but it is a #0 grade, thats how it can move, flows,
Its a fluid,
Its self leveling, may not move while not in motion, but when spinning yep all day long,
Chewbacca, your take on the situation is accurate.
The 2 cavities are not meant to share grease. If they were, there would be a LOT more design differences to expedite movement of said grease. The factory would have put the same stuff in the wheel bearings AND the knuckle, and they wouldn't have spec'd 2 different types of grease.
The Grooves int he spindle bushing do not act as a pump to move grease, they act only as a resevoir to hold it.
You have it correct.
Throw in the towel Rixxer, now with this cross sectional drawing some measurements lube flow will be proven,
happens all the time, Toyota owners, mention "Hey the moly grease invaded my wheelbearings and washed out the grease I packed in there,,,
"Moly Greasers"
Dead give away of a brainwashed clueless clown,
"Moly Greasers"
Yes it does have moly but it is a #0 grade, thats how it can move, flows,
Its a fluid,
Its self leveling, may not move while not in motion, but when spinning yep all day long,
Sorry, but no.
The design of the bushing is enough to prove your theory wrong.
Cross-contamination of gear oil and knuckle grease FURTHER prove your theory wrong.
Eyewitness accounts of factory lube prove your theory wrong.
As for your "black propogandist" and "grease conspiracy", well.... I don't really think I need even comment on THAT.
The design of the bushing is enough to prove your theory wrong.
Cross-contamination of gear oil and knuckle grease FURTHER prove your theory wrong.
Eyewitness accounts of factory lube prove your theory wrong.
As for your "black propogandist" and "grease conspiracy", well.... I don't really think I need even comment on THAT.
Originally Posted By: IH8mush
So far your a Hati orphan rescuer ,
A Cancer fighting drug maker,
A Storm and Waste Water engineer,
And Now a "Mechanical Engineer"
HMM how do you even find the time to wrangle about grease with a grease monkey?
Stormwater, not wastewater (unless you count "wrangling" with you).
I've told you before - my only interest in this is doing what I can to keep people from being deceived by your lies (the fact that YOU believe what you say has no bearing on its veracity).
So far your a Hati orphan rescuer ,
A Cancer fighting drug maker,
A Storm and Waste Water engineer,
And Now a "Mechanical Engineer"
HMM how do you even find the time to wrangle about grease with a grease monkey?
Stormwater, not wastewater (unless you count "wrangling" with you).
I've told you before - my only interest in this is doing what I can to keep people from being deceived by your lies (the fact that YOU believe what you say has no bearing on its veracity).
Originally Posted By: 93Chewbacca
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Lubriplate has a product that "says" it is good for all types of bearings. Buttttttttttt, I was under the delusion that moly grease was not optimum for wheel bearings.
Having said that, I believe Ford does/did recommend moly grease for their wheel bearings. Go figure.
http://www.lubriplate.com/pdf/pds/3_39 SYN-3002_and_SYN-3001.pdf
Doitmyself, thank you for this info!
Side note: The reason I need a moly grease with wheel bearing approval is because this grease is for the Birfield joints (front universal joints) on a 93 Toyota Land Cruiser. The Toyota service manual calls for a lithium based grease with moly additive. The birfield housing also (sometimes) shares grease with the wheel bearing cavity, and thus the greases mix together eventually (sometimes). I (and many other Land Cruiser owners) have been looking for a grease that could be used in both places without any issues.
This could be exactly what we've have been looking for. Thanks!!
Do you know of a good place to order this stuff in regular tubes?
"Doitmyself, thank you for this info!
Side note: The reason I need a moly grease with wheel bearing approval is because this grease is for the Birfield joints (front universal joints) on a 93 Toyota Land Cruiser. The Toyota service manual calls for a lithium based grease with moly additive. The birfield housing also (sometimes) shares grease with the wheel bearing cavity, and thus the greases mix together eventually (sometimes). I (and many other Land Cruiser owners) have been looking for a grease that could be used in both places without any issues."
Mr Chewbacca is correct Rixxer, the Black propaganda is real,,
If you wish to view it as a "Vast Grease Conspiracy" go right ahead,
Craziest thing I ever run into,
Originally Posted By: doitmyself
Lubriplate has a product that "says" it is good for all types of bearings. Buttttttttttt, I was under the delusion that moly grease was not optimum for wheel bearings.
Having said that, I believe Ford does/did recommend moly grease for their wheel bearings. Go figure.
http://www.lubriplate.com/pdf/pds/3_39 SYN-3002_and_SYN-3001.pdf
Doitmyself, thank you for this info!
Side note: The reason I need a moly grease with wheel bearing approval is because this grease is for the Birfield joints (front universal joints) on a 93 Toyota Land Cruiser. The Toyota service manual calls for a lithium based grease with moly additive. The birfield housing also (sometimes) shares grease with the wheel bearing cavity, and thus the greases mix together eventually (sometimes). I (and many other Land Cruiser owners) have been looking for a grease that could be used in both places without any issues.
This could be exactly what we've have been looking for. Thanks!!
Do you know of a good place to order this stuff in regular tubes?
"Doitmyself, thank you for this info!
Side note: The reason I need a moly grease with wheel bearing approval is because this grease is for the Birfield joints (front universal joints) on a 93 Toyota Land Cruiser. The Toyota service manual calls for a lithium based grease with moly additive. The birfield housing also (sometimes) shares grease with the wheel bearing cavity, and thus the greases mix together eventually (sometimes). I (and many other Land Cruiser owners) have been looking for a grease that could be used in both places without any issues."
Mr Chewbacca is correct Rixxer, the Black propaganda is real,,
If you wish to view it as a "Vast Grease Conspiracy" go right ahead,
Craziest thing I ever run into,
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: erock
Originally Posted By: IH8mush
So far your a Hati orphan rescuer ,
A Cancer fighting drug maker,
A Storm and Waste Water engineer,
And Now a "Mechanical Engineer"
HMM how do you even find the time to wrangle about grease with a grease monkey?
Stormwater, not wastewater (unless you count "wrangling" with you).
I've told you before - my only interest in this is doing what I can to keep people from being deceived by your lies (the fact that YOU believe what you say has no bearing on its veracity).
So Storm Water, huh ?
well thanks for clearing up what you are "Mechanically Engineering"
Drains for storm water,,, okay,
well not the only one here anymore, Mr Chewbacca has a very good take on the situation,
Originally Posted By: IH8mush
So far your a Hati orphan rescuer ,
A Cancer fighting drug maker,
A Storm and Waste Water engineer,
And Now a "Mechanical Engineer"
HMM how do you even find the time to wrangle about grease with a grease monkey?
Stormwater, not wastewater (unless you count "wrangling" with you).
I've told you before - my only interest in this is doing what I can to keep people from being deceived by your lies (the fact that YOU believe what you say has no bearing on its veracity).
So Storm Water, huh ?
well thanks for clearing up what you are "Mechanically Engineering"
Drains for storm water,,, okay,
well not the only one here anymore, Mr Chewbacca has a very good take on the situation,
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