Synthetic 5W30 HTHS Comparisons ?

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Sometimes you need to ignore those people who laugh.

HPL corrected the errors in their spec sheets after my calculator discovered some errors in them. They were amazed how accurate my numbers for the VII content were.
That’s a completely different situation and scope to believing ExxonMobil watches your every move here on Bitog.
 
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Interesting that they provide the full specs for their China website (your first link) but not for their US website. Thanks for finding the China link.
I thought so too. I was going back and forth between like 4 links on their website looking at things when I found the CN one with all the info but the US ones lacking it so I figured I'd share it in case it helps.
 
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I'm the one who created and has updated it. There are some SP-rated oils in there as well. It's making it more difficult because Mobil 1 probably noticed me being able to figure out their base-oil viscosity and VII content of their oils and has stopped publishing KV and VI data to protect the recipes of their oils.

My comment about ILSAC XW-30 oils being bound to HTHS ~ 3.0–3.2 cP because of fuel efficiency remains valid regardless of oil updates.
Are you saying the ht/hs requirements have changed in order to be classified as an RC oil namely ILSAC, API?
 
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Are you saying the ht/hs requirements have changed in order to be classified as an RC oil namely ILSAC, API?
No, there has never been a maximum-HTHS requirement in ILSAC but a SAE viscosity grade requirement (0W-20, 5W-20, 0W-30, 5W-30, and 10W-30 only for ILSAC GF-6A and earlier and 0W-16 for ILSAC GF-6B). Nevertheless, no oil with HTHS ⪆ 3.3 cP will be able to pass the SAE XW-30 fuel-efficiency tests for ILSAC, as the fuel economy is inversely proportional to HTHS. It is also directly proportional to the viscosity index (VI) to some extent, but that's a secondary effect. Moreover, the ILSAC fuel-efficiency tests have been getting stricter as far as I know.
 
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I thought so too. I was going back and forth between like 4 links on their website looking at things when I found the CN one with all the info but the US ones lacking it so I figured I'd share it in case it helps.
It looks like there has been no change in the Mobil 1 specs (at least for the EP 5W-30 flavor) from the API SN values in my table linked above to API SP. I had noticed the same thing for some other M1 flavors as well.
 
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It looks like there has been no change in the Mobil 1 specs (at least for the EP 5W-30 flavor) from the API SN values in my table linked above to API SP. I had noticed the same thing for some other M1 flavors as well.
I wonder if that’s due to Exxon’s claims that their oils were already “passing” SP and GF-6 before they were implemented.
 

ChrisD46

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Note that ILSAC GF-X(A) XW-30 oils (Resource Conserving XW-30 oils) will have HTHS = 3.0–3.2 cP to be able to pass the ILSAC fuel-efficiency test (2.9 cP is also allowed). In addition to looking at the HTFS, ensure that you have a high HTFS. For an ideal monograde (straight grade, nonmultigrade), HTFS = HTHS. The more the VII content, the more HTFS will deviate from HTHS due to the temporary shear of the VII.

Link to Google sheet: Estimated base-oil viscosity (HTFS) and VII content of selected oils


For a Hyundai Theta II 2.4L GDI non - turbo engine , the Castrol 5W30 Euro VW504 rated synthetic oil has high HTHS and VII under 5% which appears to be one of the better oils for a GDI engine - but now only offered in 0W30LL , so not sure how the VII number will look ? I'm surprised as I did not think too highly of Castrol oils (save Magnatec) before .
 
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ChrisD46

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I'm the one who created and has updated it. There are some SP-rated oils in there as well. It's making it more difficult because Mobil 1 probably noticed me being able to figure out their base-oil viscosity and VII content of their oils and has stopped publishing KV and VI data to protect the recipes of their oils.

My comment about ILSAC XW-30 oils being bound to HTHS ~ 3.0–3.2 cP because of fuel efficiency remains valid regardless of oil updates.
For a GDI engine - it would appear prudent to search for oils low VII's and with a high HTHS formula in the oil grade you wanted ?
 

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For a GDI engine - it would appear prudent to search for oils low VII's and with a high HTHS formula in the oil grade you wanted ?
Oil with Lower VII = Less engine and turbocharger deposits
Oil with Higher HTFS = Lower engine wear
 

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Plus with GDI the thinking is you also want lower ash, which is related to the metallic based additives.
*Good point , I believe SP rated oils are required to be less than 1% ash ... Valvoline Advanced has nice specs but the SN rated version came in at 0.9% ash which is high .
 

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It looks like there has been no change in the Mobil 1 specs (at least for the EP 5W-30 flavor) from the API SN values in my table linked above to API SP. I had noticed the same thing for some other M1 flavors as well.
*It really stood out with M1 having a high percentage of VII's as compared to most of the synthetic oils in the table ... You would think M1 base oil quality would mitigate the need for adding a higher percentage of VII's ?
 
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*It really stood out with M1 having a high percentage of VII's as compared to most of the synthetic oils in the table ... You would think M1 base oil quality would mitigate the need for adding a higher percentage of VII's ?
Mobil 1 focuses on fuel economy—hence a high VII content, which lowers HTFS (base-oil viscosity) and KV40 to improve fuel economy. The downside of a low HTFS is a high Noack volatility.

Base-oil quality is proportional to the inverse of (CCS) viscosity multiplied by the Noack volatility, for which I defined a "base-oil quality index (BOQI)" in the past. SpectraSyn Max low-viscosity–low-volatility (LV–LV) PAO by ExxonMobil leaves everything in the dust in the BOQI area if you watch the following video, simultaneously minimizing viscosity and volatility, hence maximizing BOQI.



VII deposits are less of a concern with modern OCP VIIs.
 
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For a GDI engine - it would appear prudent to search for oils low VII's and with a high HTHS formula in the oil grade you wanted ?
The main concern in GDI engines is intake-valve deposits (IVD), for which you want a high base-oil quality and low SAPS.

A high HTFS (not HTHS) would help with valvetrain and timing-chain wear protection, especially with GDI soot present. A good AW/EP/FM package would help in that area, too. A high HTFS would also help protect the bearings from wear if the vehicle is driven hard.
 

ChrisD46

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The main concern in GDI engines is intake-valve deposits (IVD), for which you want a high base-oil quality and low SAPS.

A high HTFS (not HTHS) would help with valvetrain and timing-chain wear protection, especially with GDI soot present. A good AW/EP/FM package would help in that area, too. A high HTFS would also help protect the bearings from wear if the vehicle is driven hard.
Your recommendations would certainly fit the Hyundai 2.4L Theta II GDI engines ... The better HTFS 5W30 oils readily available at WM would be Valvoline Advance / EP , Pennzoil Platinum and Castrol EDGE (all 2.5+ HTFS) .
 
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