BelRay H1-R 28:1 engines run longlonglong time before needing rebuilds. Also add 3 oz of lucas top end lube/injector cleaner and 3 oz mercury marine fuel treatment/stabilizer to 5 gallons premium every time. For my 4 strokes I just leave out the H1-R...
Suzuki RM250 $$ Best 2 stroke oil?
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Thought I'd pipe in here as there seems to be a lot of misinformation floating about...
- BRP has developed a DI two-stroke engine tech which is found in Ski-Doo snowmobiles and Evinrude outboards; the resulting engines are smoke and odour-free, and use less fuel than competing cammers, along with using very little oil
- the E-TEC technology (in Evinrude outboards) received the EPA's Clean Air Excellence Award a few years back, something no four-stroke has ever received
- while modern four-strokes have made incredible gains in terms of power of late, the fact remains that two-stokes are more powerful, lighter, simpler; the "best" comparison would be GP bike engines where the last of the 500 2-s made about 190 hp while the best of the new liter-size MotoGP bikes make about 260 hp (do the math folks), one has to wonder where the power levesl of 500s would be if they hadn't be shelved over 10 years ago
In the end, the biggest problem facing two-strokes is that they receive very little in the way of R&D....
Finally, as for 4-strokes "taking over" in the snowmobile industry, their market share has been plateaud at about 25% for few years now.... hardly what I call taking over......
- BRP has developed a DI two-stroke engine tech which is found in Ski-Doo snowmobiles and Evinrude outboards; the resulting engines are smoke and odour-free, and use less fuel than competing cammers, along with using very little oil
- the E-TEC technology (in Evinrude outboards) received the EPA's Clean Air Excellence Award a few years back, something no four-stroke has ever received
- while modern four-strokes have made incredible gains in terms of power of late, the fact remains that two-stokes are more powerful, lighter, simpler; the "best" comparison would be GP bike engines where the last of the 500 2-s made about 190 hp while the best of the new liter-size MotoGP bikes make about 260 hp (do the math folks), one has to wonder where the power levesl of 500s would be if they hadn't be shelved over 10 years ago
In the end, the biggest problem facing two-strokes is that they receive very little in the way of R&D....
Finally, as for 4-strokes "taking over" in the snowmobile industry, their market share has been plateaud at about 25% for few years now.... hardly what I call taking over......
Originally Posted By: FastGame
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
Originally Posted By: FastGame
Originally Posted By: sunruh
in the outboard boat motor world there is direct injected 2smoke motors. they rip!
the problem is when you have some insanely stupid ceo of hugecompany (tm) cough honda cough that says they will never build a 2smoke again. well, there is only 1 way to change that and it ends with a knife in the gut.
WTH ??? ends with a knife in the gut ?
In the snowmobile world 2 cycle really rips, but 4 cycle is taking over. 2 cycle has 1 major limiting factor...crank seals.
And why in the heck does the crank seal limit a two stroke??? Uh.. I'm not seeing it. Two strokes were killed because of the useless EPA
All the super hotrod boosted (turbo) 2 cycle sleds I've seen seem to have problems with their crank seals. I've been to many frozen lake/grass drags and this was common. Maybe I jinks the the 2 cycle guys ??? 4 strokers don't have that crank seal thing and they can run higher boost. Also boosted 2 cycle has other issues with the way charge flow is controlled.
But yes the EPA is the #1 killer of 2 cycle in general.
Sorry to inform you, but four strokes have that "Crank seal Thingy" too. That crank seal is where the crank leaves the motor. Not a problem and I would much rather change a two stroke crank seal then do a valve on a four stroke. That is hardly a weak link.
Originally Posted By: racin4ds
Originally Posted By: FastGame
Originally Posted By: sunruh
in the outboard boat motor world there is direct injected 2smoke motors. they rip!
the problem is when you have some insanely stupid ceo of hugecompany (tm) cough honda cough that says they will never build a 2smoke again. well, there is only 1 way to change that and it ends with a knife in the gut.
WTH ??? ends with a knife in the gut ?
In the snowmobile world 2 cycle really rips, but 4 cycle is taking over. 2 cycle has 1 major limiting factor...crank seals.
And why in the heck does the crank seal limit a two stroke??? Uh.. I'm not seeing it. Two strokes were killed because of the useless EPA
All the super hotrod boosted (turbo) 2 cycle sleds I've seen seem to have problems with their crank seals. I've been to many frozen lake/grass drags and this was common. Maybe I jinks the the 2 cycle guys ??? 4 strokers don't have that crank seal thing and they can run higher boost. Also boosted 2 cycle has other issues with the way charge flow is controlled.
But yes the EPA is the #1 killer of 2 cycle in general.
Sorry to inform you, but four strokes have that "Crank seal Thingy" too. That crank seal is where the crank leaves the motor. Not a problem and I would much rather change a two stroke crank seal then do a valve on a four stroke. That is hardly a weak link.
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Originally Posted By: Panzerman
Sorry to inform you, but four strokes have that "Crank seal Thingy" too. That crank seal is where the crank leaves the motor. Not a problem and I would much rather change a two stroke crank seal then do a valve on a four stroke. That is hardly a weak link.
You don't need to be "Sorry to inform" me of anything. Four strokes don't do compression in the crank case, two strokes do. Yes I'm sure replacing seals on the single cylinder two stoke is not bad, try changing them on 2-3 cylinder two's. I'd rather do valve jobs than taking cranks apart, to each their own....
Sorry to inform you, but four strokes have that "Crank seal Thingy" too. That crank seal is where the crank leaves the motor. Not a problem and I would much rather change a two stroke crank seal then do a valve on a four stroke. That is hardly a weak link.
You don't need to be "Sorry to inform" me of anything. Four strokes don't do compression in the crank case, two strokes do. Yes I'm sure replacing seals on the single cylinder two stoke is not bad, try changing them on 2-3 cylinder two's. I'd rather do valve jobs than taking cranks apart, to each their own....
here is my motor. show me the crank seal you speak of.
yes i even included the mircofische so you can point it out
to me.
http://www.ctpowersports.com/OEMpartfinder.htm#/Yamaha/YZ250F_-_YZ250FFL_-_2015/CRANKSHAFT_PISTON/YZ250FFL_%282015_MOTORCYCLE%29/CRANKSHAFT_PISTON_%28YZ250FFL_-_2015%29
http://www.ctpowersports.com/OEMpartfinder.htm#/Yamaha/YZ250F_-_YZ250FFL_-_2015/CRANKCASE/YZ250FFL_%282015_MOTORCYCLE%29/CRANKCASE_%28YZ250FFL_-_2015%29
lol crank seals lol
the only "crank seals" in this motor would be called piston rings.
yes i even included the mircofische so you can point it out
to me.
http://www.ctpowersports.com/OEMpartfinder.htm#/Yamaha/YZ250F_-_YZ250FFL_-_2015/CRANKSHAFT_PISTON/YZ250FFL_%282015_MOTORCYCLE%29/CRANKSHAFT_PISTON_%28YZ250FFL_-_2015%29
http://www.ctpowersports.com/OEMpartfinder.htm#/Yamaha/YZ250F_-_YZ250FFL_-_2015/CRANKCASE/YZ250FFL_%282015_MOTORCYCLE%29/CRANKCASE_%28YZ250FFL_-_2015%29
lol crank seals lol
the only "crank seals" in this motor would be called piston rings.
Originally Posted By: sunruh
here is my motor. show me the crank seal you speak of.
yes i even included the mircofische so you can point it out
to me.
http://www.ctpowersports.com/OEMpartfinder.htm#/Yamaha/YZ250F_-_YZ250FFL_-_2015/CRANKSHAFT_PISTON/YZ250FFL_%282015_MOTORCYCLE%29/CRANKSHAFT_PISTON_%28YZ250FFL_-_2015%29
http://www.ctpowersports.com/OEMpartfinder.htm#/Yamaha/YZ250F_-_YZ250FFL_-_2015/CRANKCASE/YZ250FFL_%282015_MOTORCYCLE%29/CRANKCASE_%28YZ250FFL_-_2015%29
lol crank seals lol
the only "crank seals" in this motor would be called piston rings.
Single cylinder
https://www.google.com/search?q=Yamaha%2FYZ250F+crank+seals&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
https://www.google.com/search?q=YZ250FFL+crank+seals&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
Multi-cylinder
https://www.google.com/search?q=Kawasaki+H1+crank+seals&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
https://www.google.com/search?q=Kawasaki+H2+crank+seals&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
here is my motor. show me the crank seal you speak of.
yes i even included the mircofische so you can point it out
to me.
http://www.ctpowersports.com/OEMpartfinder.htm#/Yamaha/YZ250F_-_YZ250FFL_-_2015/CRANKSHAFT_PISTON/YZ250FFL_%282015_MOTORCYCLE%29/CRANKSHAFT_PISTON_%28YZ250FFL_-_2015%29
http://www.ctpowersports.com/OEMpartfinder.htm#/Yamaha/YZ250F_-_YZ250FFL_-_2015/CRANKCASE/YZ250FFL_%282015_MOTORCYCLE%29/CRANKCASE_%28YZ250FFL_-_2015%29
lol crank seals lol
the only "crank seals" in this motor would be called piston rings.
Single cylinder
https://www.google.com/search?q=Yamaha%2FYZ250F+crank+seals&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
https://www.google.com/search?q=YZ250FFL+crank+seals&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
Multi-cylinder
https://www.google.com/search?q=Kawasaki+H1+crank+seals&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
https://www.google.com/search?q=Kawasaki+H2+crank+seals&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
lol crank seals lol
the only "crank seals" in this motor would be called piston rings.
If only they would replace the rings
https://www.google.com/search?q=snowmobile+bad+crank+seals&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
Are you still lol-ing ?
the only "crank seals" in this motor would be called piston rings.
If only they would replace the rings
https://www.google.com/search?q=snowmobile+bad+crank+seals&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
Are you still lol-ing ?
yes i am because your goggle links pull up 2smokes. not 4strokes HA HA HA
um, look at the forum title. motorcycles and motorcycle lube...not sleds. yep more lol
um, look at the forum title. motorcycles and motorcycle lube...not sleds. yep more lol
Read the whole thread and you will see where it branched off into 2 strokes and my comment about seals. I never said anything about 4 strokes and crank seals until Panzyman started his ridicule and you shortly followed it up....
Glad you are having a good LOL
Glad you are having a good LOL
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I never realised so many people were running blowers on their MX bikes, sleds, outboards,... maybe it's an everywhere-but-Canada thing, however..... Strangely enough, an engine's durability/longevity when running pressure has NEVER been on my purchase criteria, or that of anyone I know to be honest.... funny how that works.... For those of us not into blowers (which, I dare say, is likely over 99% of the world), however, two-strokes are significantly more powerful than four-strokes, and will likely remain that way due to the fact that they fire on every stroke, as well as due to their greatly reduced internal friction and pumping losses ...
Originally Posted By: Mik
For those of us not into blowers (which, I dare say, is likely over 99% of the world), two-strokes are significantly more powerful than four-strokes, and will likely remain that way due to the fact that they fire on every stroke, as well as due to their greatly reduced internal friction and pumping losses ...
AND, power to weight is the crux of the issue. I've been discussing this issue for many years. It's rather interesting, as people will regularly pull up HP or Torque numbers for certain engines to prove a point.
Above, someone made the claim that 250cc 4t motocrossers operated by elite race teams make near 50HP. Crank or at the wheel? Well, a bone stock, production 250cc 2 stroke makes over 50HP at the crank. "Elite" teams get much more. Let's compare engines as produced. Or as modified. Not modified to stock.
But more interestingly, not one 250 4t at the local race shop dyno makes over 40 at the wheel. NOT ONE. Most well prepped ones make near 37 or 38HP. Magazine tests showing over 40HP are correcting for various losses, including drivetrain losses. The real rear wheel hp is still under 40. And, that's what moves you.
For those of us not into blowers (which, I dare say, is likely over 99% of the world), two-strokes are significantly more powerful than four-strokes, and will likely remain that way due to the fact that they fire on every stroke, as well as due to their greatly reduced internal friction and pumping losses ...
AND, power to weight is the crux of the issue. I've been discussing this issue for many years. It's rather interesting, as people will regularly pull up HP or Torque numbers for certain engines to prove a point.
Above, someone made the claim that 250cc 4t motocrossers operated by elite race teams make near 50HP. Crank or at the wheel? Well, a bone stock, production 250cc 2 stroke makes over 50HP at the crank. "Elite" teams get much more. Let's compare engines as produced. Or as modified. Not modified to stock.
But more interestingly, not one 250 4t at the local race shop dyno makes over 40 at the wheel. NOT ONE. Most well prepped ones make near 37 or 38HP. Magazine tests showing over 40HP are correcting for various losses, including drivetrain losses. The real rear wheel hp is still under 40. And, that's what moves you.
how do you think a dynojet 150 takes the hp numbers?
its by the rear tire on a drum roller.
they all report the same if the same "smoothing" is applied...usually its 5. they all state the current temp and humidity and adjust accordingly and state the adjustment.
show me more than a yamaha yz250, ktm 250sx (husky cr250 is same bike), gasgas250, beta250, sherco250 that is actually imported into the usa right now? and the 3 there are pretty exotic and rare. i'm not so sure the same dyno would have all of them at over 50hp. the ktm sx, yes. not even sure the yamaha hits that bone stock.
yes the 2t SHOULD win everytime, way less moving parts. 2x power strokes. yet nowhere near the rpm range. many more riders are able to ride a 4t better because of the broader rpm range and flatter torque curve. less than 20 guys (actuall that number may be only 10) in the entire world can ride a 2t 250 mx bike at its potential....proven over decades in both the usa ama series and world gp mx series.
its by the rear tire on a drum roller.
they all report the same if the same "smoothing" is applied...usually its 5. they all state the current temp and humidity and adjust accordingly and state the adjustment.
show me more than a yamaha yz250, ktm 250sx (husky cr250 is same bike), gasgas250, beta250, sherco250 that is actually imported into the usa right now? and the 3 there are pretty exotic and rare. i'm not so sure the same dyno would have all of them at over 50hp. the ktm sx, yes. not even sure the yamaha hits that bone stock.
yes the 2t SHOULD win everytime, way less moving parts. 2x power strokes. yet nowhere near the rpm range. many more riders are able to ride a 4t better because of the broader rpm range and flatter torque curve. less than 20 guys (actuall that number may be only 10) in the entire world can ride a 2t 250 mx bike at its potential....proven over decades in both the usa ama series and world gp mx series.
True about the motocross bikes. The power delivery of a 4 stroke is a good thing on an MX'er. However, motocross bikes are not the only use for 2 stroke engines. Karting, for example employs many 2 stroke engines. Two strokes win everytime, by displacement, on Karts. Same goes for chainsaws, trimmers, and other small engines.
Aircraft engines also count. There are some Rotax 2 stroke engines that have unmatched power to weight in their class. It's hard to achieve 2 pounds per HP in an aircraft engine. Yet, there are a number of 2 strokes that achieve better than that.
It's hard to beat a 2 stroke for power to weight and simplicity. The best 4 strokes with excellent power to weight are quite complex, significantly more expensive and not necessarily longer lasting.
Watch this video of a 250cc 4 stroke Kart against 125cc 55HP 2 strokes. You'll get the idea really quickly. Modified 2 strokes are impressive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qvm-Dv7kNcI This is 3 miles from my house. I watch this stuff regularly.
Aircraft engines also count. There are some Rotax 2 stroke engines that have unmatched power to weight in their class. It's hard to achieve 2 pounds per HP in an aircraft engine. Yet, there are a number of 2 strokes that achieve better than that.
It's hard to beat a 2 stroke for power to weight and simplicity. The best 4 strokes with excellent power to weight are quite complex, significantly more expensive and not necessarily longer lasting.
Watch this video of a 250cc 4 stroke Kart against 125cc 55HP 2 strokes. You'll get the idea really quickly. Modified 2 strokes are impressive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qvm-Dv7kNcI This is 3 miles from my house. I watch this stuff regularly.
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Well,you guys did an admirable job of derailing this thread lol.Anyway,years ago cycle magazine did a dyno test on an rm250,hp went up,and cht went down,the more oil they added to the mix.Finally,iirc,the bike wouldn't run without fouling the plug at about 12:1,i think they settled on 20:1 as the best compromise.As to the op,in my woods ridden,play use ktm's,kdx's,yz's and cr's 32:1 spectro and yamalube gave excellent protection.
Originally Posted By: macthejac
Well,you guys did an admirable job of derailing this thread lol.Anyway,years ago cycle magazine did a dyno test on an rm250,hp went up,and cht went down,the more oil they added to the mix.Finally,iirc,the bike wouldn't run without fouling the plug at about 12:1,i think they settled on 20:1 as the best compromise.As to the op,in my woods ridden,play use ktm's,kdx's,yz's and cr's 32:1 spectro and yamalube gave excellent protection.
Yup! Sorry 'bout that.
I like Castrol TT-S for "all around" 2 stroke oil. It's EG-D rated and works as well as the famous MX2t Mobil 1. Just had my KTM380 out for a little ride today!
Well,you guys did an admirable job of derailing this thread lol.Anyway,years ago cycle magazine did a dyno test on an rm250,hp went up,and cht went down,the more oil they added to the mix.Finally,iirc,the bike wouldn't run without fouling the plug at about 12:1,i think they settled on 20:1 as the best compromise.As to the op,in my woods ridden,play use ktm's,kdx's,yz's and cr's 32:1 spectro and yamalube gave excellent protection.
Yup! Sorry 'bout that.
I like Castrol TT-S for "all around" 2 stroke oil. It's EG-D rated and works as well as the famous MX2t Mobil 1. Just had my KTM380 out for a little ride today!
Lot of silliness and [censored] info mixed in with the good like any forum I suppose. Based on many experiences Maxima SuperM and Yamalube at 32:1 or 40:1 are the best options. Both offer excellent protection and cleanliness. If splitting hairs I'd put SuperM a little more protection and Yamalube a little cleaner. Same with ratios, 32:1 a little more protection/power while 40:1 a little cleaner less loading up.
I'd base my decision on availability of oil and riding style. Riding in dunes or long hill climds with a lot of wide open and stress on the motor go with 32:1. Lot of trail riding with on/off and mid throttle go with 40:1. I wouldn't mess with oil ratios after that, focus more on always getting your bikes jetted properly. Proper jetting will do more for power, cleanliness, protection, and throttle response than playing with oils.
I'd base my decision on availability of oil and riding style. Riding in dunes or long hill climds with a lot of wide open and stress on the motor go with 32:1. Lot of trail riding with on/off and mid throttle go with 40:1. I wouldn't mess with oil ratios after that, focus more on always getting your bikes jetted properly. Proper jetting will do more for power, cleanliness, protection, and throttle response than playing with oils.
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