Supertech Oil Filters

[jeepman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Filter guy:
They are..

Others just want you to use what they use..


I had two excellent oil analysis with the Super Tech. I decided to spend and extra buck or so and went to STP instead. Just to see the difference.

The particle counts with Super Tech were fine.

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I don't really want people to use what I use, I just want to advise of any positive or negative experiences to help them make a qualified decision. With that in mind, I was inspecting a few filters in my stash tonight and found 5 Supertech's (2 ST3600 and 3 ST16) that had black paint overspray on the inside of the filter element

. It really took some work with a flashlight and inspecting down the filter hole to find it, but all 5 had some inside. I tried to get a photo, but I don't have a digital with enough zoom to capture it down inside the filter. They are now Walmart property again and I have purchased Napa Silver's to replace them. I am sure once the paint inside broke free and worked through my engine the filter would have caught it, but I really am not comfortable with black paint running through my car.

So I will retract my earlier post that Supertech's are fine filters. I cannot belive that the cans are not painted without the filter element inside, and I will not even consider looking at one again even for someone who I am doing a favor for. Motorcraft and Napa Silver are only about $1.50 more, and I will personally be using Napa Gold's from now on. They are darn good filters for around $5 and have a threaded end bypass unlike Purolator. If the PureOne had a threaded end bypass, it would be my choice, but it does not therefore I will be using Wix/Napa. $5 dollars, 4 times a year seems like small insurance money to pay for the lifeline of my $15k car.

 

[jeepman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Pontius Pilate:
hey if spending 2 to 3 times the price for a "better filter" that does the same job is your bag then so be it, ill stick with $2 supertech filters... anyone hear of ST adbv failures? anyone? heeeelllloooo ?

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How do you know that it does the same job? That statement would indicate that you believe that the filter element in the Supertech is equal to a PureOne? I agree with you that after several years no one has reported any failure of the ADVB, and it would be speculation to assume that the filters run in bypass when not needed. However, there are plenty of studies which have proven that the "2 to 3 times the price" spent on a PureOne versus a Supertech, does provide the consumer with a filter that does a Better job, not the same job. I don't think that even Filter Guy would make such a bold post stating that the E-Core filtration rates below 20 microns are equal between these two filters.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

quote:

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Originally posted by Pontius Pilate:
hey if spending 2 to 3 times the price for a "better filter" that does the same job is your bag then so be it, ill stick with $2 supertech filters... anyone hear of ST adbv failures? anyone? heeeelllloooo ?

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My Napa Golds cost me $3 when I buy an allotment of 12 online for three different vehicles. That will last me 18 months.

The last Supertech filter I used leaked all over my driveway. The gaskets on some are junk. If I overtighten them, the shell collapses. Yeah.. real nice filter there.

Buy what you want! I really don't care.

 

[Bryanccfshr]

Then what motivates you to post if you don't care?

Never has a problem with supertechs myself.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

My motivation is like many others here.

We are here to let the truth be told -- truth being our experiences with the product. Also here to let posters like Pontius Pilate know that their filter-pricing is not correct.

After that.... you can take that experience/price correction & run with it -- or ignore it altogether.... matters-not to me

 

[labman]

Been running Super Techs for 6-8 years on my truck. Never saw a bit of trouble. It may have survived more years than that with Frams. Goes to show oil filters just aren't that important.

 

[Buick92]

I've run supertechs many times with no problems, but because of this site I've switched around a bit, now I use Wix filters but ST's are probably good for most applications.

 

[hominid7]

For a couple of extra bucks i sure feel better about using WIX filters on my 21,000 dollar investment. Although i do have a ST filter on it right now, as i had an old one lying around (the old kind with the metal spring bypass) and i didnt want to just throw it away. So far so good. I'm hesitant to use the newer ST filters with the plastic bypass inside.

I've bought Denso filters online before, had very good luck with them, and got them for about 4 dollars a piece with shipping.

Having said that, i'd use a SuperTech filter anyday and twice on sundays before I put one of those substandard and overpriced orange deamons on my car.

 

[Filter guy]

Jeepman..wish i would have read your earlier post sooner.

Over spray inside the element?

That would have been something worthwhile to send back to the lab for analysis.

The filters are painted baseplate down. If there was over spray inside the filter, you should also see it on the opposite side of the gasket on the base plate.

The filters are electrostatically powder coat painted. Which means fine bits of powder are shot/sprayed at the can and the electrostatic charge makes the flakes of paint adhere to the metal surface of the shell as the filter its rotated 360 degrees in side the paint booth. It then goes through an oven which bakes the flakes into what looks like a liquid paint.

So those bits of paint would go everywhere if the filter is not sealed. Not just down inside the shell.

That's why when you look at a filter the paint stops at the rolled seam.

If you had something other that that..it would have been nice for the lab to look at it and analysis it.

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

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For a couple of extra bucks i sure feel better about using WIX filters on my 21,000 dollar investment.

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I know what you mean.

..but then again ...getting the job done ..and in fine fashion ..for $2.07+tax just feels so "right". It's ...I dunno

..like our own version of "sticking it to the man" (visions of that cell phone provider commercial where the CEO discusses "sticking it to the man" with his assistant ..admitting that he is "the man" and may be sticking it to himself). It's like getting away with something. Finding the secret passage ..the short cut ..the key to the decoder ring.

 

[jeepman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Gary Allan:

quote:

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For a couple of extra bucks i sure feel better about using WIX filters on my 21,000 dollar investment.

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I know what you mean.

..but then again ...getting the job done ..and in fine fashion ..for $2.07+tax just feels so "right". It's ...I dunno

..like our own version of "sticking it to the man" (visions of that cell phone provider commercial where the CEO discusses "sticking it to the man" with his assistant ..admitting that he is "the man" and may be sticking it to himself). It's like getting away with something. Finding the secret passage ..the short cut ..the key to the decoder ring.

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But how can you be sticking it to the man, if you are putting dollars in WalMart's pocket, since they are the epitomy example of "the man"? At least if you buy a Motorcraft at Wally World, then I would assume their profit margin is smaller than what they make on the SuperTech house brand.

 

[Filter guy]

Contact Champ..

1-800-882-0890 and tell them you want a filter retrieval kit and why. You will get a service report after the lab analyzes the filter.


You're probably right about what Walmart did with them.

 

[labman]

Are the Motorcrafts made in wherever like the rest of the Purolators? If spending extra money is important to you, go to Auto Zone and pick up an STP or Bosch. Still made in America, and Filter Guy let slip that the STP uses better media than ST.

 

[jeepman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Filter guy:
Jeepman..wish i would have read your earlier post sooner.

Over spray inside the element?

That would have been something worthwhile to send back to the lab for analysis.

The filters are painted baseplate down. If there was over spray inside the filter, you should also see it on the opposite side of the gasket on the base plate.

The filters are electrostatically powder coat painted. Which means fine bits of powder are shot/sprayed at the can and the electrostatic charge makes the flakes of paint adhere to the metal surface of the shell as the filter its rotated 360 degrees in side the paint booth. It then goes through an oven which bakes the flakes into what looks like a liquid paint.

So those bits of paint would go everywhere if the filter is not sealed. Not just down inside the shell.

That's why when you look at a filter the paint stops at the rolled seam.

If you had something other that that..it would have been nice for the lab to look at it and analysis it.

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I am sure that the Walmart I returned them to put them back on the shelf. I will stop by tonight and see if one of them is there, and if so I will repurchse it so I can get it to you for analysis. There was no paint on the baseplate of each one, however looking down inside the element had a black substance that sure looked like black oversprayed paint.

I will be happy to see if I can get one back, and contact you if I do....

 

[jeepman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Filter guy:
Contact Champ..

1-800-882-0890 and tell them you want a filter retrieval kit and why. You will get a service report after the lab analyzes the filter.


You're probably right about what Walmart did with them.

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Thanks for the help. I have reaquired a couple of filters from Wally World (of course they put them back on the shelf even though I told them not to) that have the black spot inside. The odd thing was that I purchased these filters at a different Walmart than the one I returned them at. So I found 2 of the filters I returned (recognized by the condition of the box), and then I reached around to the back of the row and grabbed another ST3600, which in theory should be one that I did not return. All 3 of them had the same black spot on the inside of the media. I don't know if they are from the same batch that was made since I could not find any identifying QA marks on the filters, but I am sure that the lab will figure out when they were produced and what the substance is.

I called the Filter Hotline this morning and they are shipping out 2 kits for me to send them back for analysis. I did cut one open myself, and verified that there is a black spot on the inside of the filter element, and that it wasn't some anomaly that was visible from through the opening in the filter. I will have to wait until I get the lab report to post the findings, and don't want to speculate on what it may be. I will update this thread as soon as I get a response from them.

 

[Bill in Utah]

The Ecore I tore open for the board had that mark.

Ecore report

No big deal IMO.

I think it's a QC mark that gets put in to show someone did something with it.

It's put on there for some reason.

You can see it in the above link.

Take care, bill

 

[jeepman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Bill in Utah:
The Ecore I tore open for the board had that mark.

Ecore report

No big deal IMO.

I think it's a QC mark that gets put in to show someone did something with it.

It's put on there for some reason.

You can see it in the above link.

Take care, bill

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I don't necessarily disagree with your hypothesis, however I am still not sure I have a comfort level that this is not something that comes off with the hot oil filtering through and winds up circulating through the engine. I will have to wait for the lab report, but maybe Filter Guy can clue us in based on the photos.

 

[Filter guy]

The black you see in the photo is an ink dye used to indicate where the pleat count is made.

You feed the roll of media into a pleater. It forms the pleats and counts them.

Say the fitler you are making takes 65 pleats. There is a spray of dye that is put on the pleats at that point. Remember the media is moving so multiple pleats get the dye.

The operator takes a knife and cuts the pleat length wise. Now you have two ends of the media.

Both ends are fed into a glue machine which glues the entire length of the two ends of pleats together to form an impeneratable bond between the two. No oil can get "between" the two ends. Which can happen with a metal clip or where the end is lapped over the other end and they use the endcaps to hold the media together.

That is what you are seeing down the center tube of the E-core. It is harder to see with a metal center tube because the center tube gets in the way. With an E-core and the nylon cage that has so much open area, this would be easier to see.

You'll see something similar on air filters where dye is used to indicate pleat count.

The ink dye won't come off because of hot oil.

 

[jeepman]

quote:

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Originally posted by Filter guy:
The black you see in the photo is an ink dye used to indicate where the pleat count is made.

You feed the roll of media into a pleater. It forms the pleats and counts them.

Say the fitler you are making takes 65 pleats. There is a spray of dye that is put on the pleats at that point. Remember the media is moving so multiple pleats get the dye.

The operator takes a knife and cuts the pleat length wise. Now you have two ends of the media.

Both ends are fed into a glue machine which glues the entire length of the two ends of pleats together to form an impeneratable bond between the two. No oil can get "between" the two ends. Which can happen with a metal clip or where the end is lapped over the other end and they use the endcaps to hold the media together.

That is what you are seeing down the center tube of the E-core. It is harder to see with a metal center tube because the center tube gets in the way. With an E-core and the nylon cage that has so much open area, this would be easier to see.

You'll see something similar on air filters where dye is used to indicate pleat count.

The ink dye won't come off because of hot oil.

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In that case, I stand corrected, and will not need to waste Champ Labs time with sending the filters back. Thanks for the clarification, and now it makes perfect sense. I will also say that in cutting one of the E-Cores open, I was certainly surprised by how well the fiber end caps were attached with the bonding process. I would have expected them to peel right off, but it took quite a bit of force to remove it. Also, the plastic core was very strong as well. Now that you have clarified the mark, and I have seen the inside of one of these, I am more impressed than I expected to be and may return to using them on my Jeep.

Thanks again for your reply, and for helping to educate a newer BITOG'er.

 

[Filter guy]

No problem.

That's what most here try to do..help explain things.