Summer tires in winter?

[Riptide]

I have a couple Invo and NT05 for my car that are on the way.

What are the implications of taking the car out with these tires on during the winter? Assume cold, cold pavement. NO SNOW OR ICE.

Will this damage the tread on the tires or wear the [censored] out of them? I only drive the car enough to keep it driven during the real cold part of winter.

 

[Quest]

one word: traction.

Summer tires have rubber compound designed to provide proper traction above >5C or more. Any temperature lower than that, you gonna have fun slip-sliding away.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Riptide
What are the implications of taking the car out with these tires on during the winter? Assume cold, cold pavement. NO SNOW OR ICE.

Will this damage the tread on the tires or wear the [censored] out of them?

It will not damage the tread or cause any accelerated wear. The main downside is that summer rubber hardens in cold temps which will negatively affect traction, so you have to keep that in mind when accelerating, braking, turning, etc. If you take it easy and the roads are perfectly clear, I don't see a big issue.

 

[Riptide]

So driving the car, even on dry pavement, is going to be extremely dangerous? I was hoping I could get away with this if I drive slow and carefully.

The main thing I was worried about was accelerated wear on the cold pavement due to the soft summer compound in the tire.

EDIT: Thanks Pete didn't see the reply until after this post.

 

[SuperDave456]

We down here in Texas do it all the time. However, I think we had 4 days this last year below freezing. Sure it gets down their at night, but then it thaws out in the morning.

And oh yeah, we dont know how to drive.
I was born here and am still astonished at how stupid people drive in bad weather. Rain, high wind, ice, dosent matter.
Expect hooliganism on the roads if you drive in Texas.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: Riptide
So driving the car, even on dry pavement, is going to be extremely dangerous? I was hoping I could get away with this if I drive slow and carefully.

The main thing I was worried about was accelerated wear on the cold pavement due to the soft summer compound in the tire.

EDIT: Thanks Pete didn't see the reply until after this post.

If you're driving around a dry but cold parking lot, I wouldn't worry too much about it. If it's wet and cold, you might have some serious issues.

One year I tried driving on a side road from Lake Tahoe to Carson City in about November. There was no snow yet, but it started getting cooler and my Integra GS-R was shod with Pirelli P6000 tires. Handling was rather strange. I was losing grip and needed to slow down.

I think Nokian does have some supposedly non all-season tires that are designed to operate reliably down to the mid 30s F. It's supposed to be able to handle cool days where it doesn't snow. It's essentially an all-season rubber compound without an all-season tread pattern. I think the idea was to provide the stability of a summer tire tread pattern without giving up cold temp grip.

http://www.nokiantyres.com/release?id=10343099&year=2005&group=

 

[Riptide]

Tread wear was my main concern. I just paid $233 a piece for these 295/45/R18 nitto nt05 tires. I would rather not destroy them by driving the car a few times during the winter.

As long as I keep the speed down, leave TC on, and drive carefully on dry pavement... then hopefully I have nothing to worry about.

 

[JHZR2]

There was a BMW 1 series owner that smacked the side of his car around a curve, driving carefully because of this. Ill post the link if I can find it.

 

[JHZR2]

Not the one I was thinking of, but a long one with some good info:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225648

Here you go, this is the one I was thinking of:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=247664

 

[Riptide]

Yikes. That's disturbing. Maybe I'm gonna have to rethink this then.

 

[AdRock]

Then tires can becoime hard as rocks. The last time i had to drive some soft rubber summer tires in below freezing temps I spent the first 15 minutes in the car swerving back and forth going up & down the street to warm the tires up a little.

If I were in your shoes I'd get the tires I want. Then when it get's real cold find somewhere with no traffic and test the limits of the tires. Even if they get hard & slippery in the cold, if you know what their limits are and what to expect if you go past that limit then you'll probably be fine.

 

[Riptide]

Well. I guess I'm just gonna risk it. I'll drive slow and cautious. And stick to the dry pavement. And drive the car as little as I can get away with. I realize it's OK to just let it sit there for months but I prefer to get it on the road for at least a good 20 mile drive once a month.

Time to lower that deductible then?

 

[rpn453]

Would a near-bald all-season tire that has poor warm weather traction even when new really have better traction than a new summer tire with a similar tread pattern once it gets cold? Does anyone have any data showing coefficient of friction of tire rubbers with respect to temperature? I've always wondered how much of a role rubber compound plays in a summer tire's poor cold weather performance compared to the lack of siping and grooves.

 

[Quattro Pete]

I see siping and grooves being a factor in wet and snow, but on dry pavement?

 

[rpn453]

I'm not sure about that one. I'm thinking that since the pavement around here is never all that smooth, maybe the tread block edges would dig into the roughness a bit. If you took a piece of very hard rubber - such as a hockey puck - and cut a bunch of grooves in it, I think it would be harder to slide on the pavement than a smooth-faced puck.

*goes to garage*

So, I took a hockey puck and cut a bunch of grooves in it with a hacksaw, and it does seem to have more grip on dry and, especially, wet concrete. There's no good asphalt near here to test on.

But I actually wasn't even thinking in that direction when I posted. I was thinking that the traction problems of summer tires come into play when moisture is present. How bad are they on cold, dry pavement? I'd be interested in seeing any testing relating to that.

 

[rpn453]

I played with the hockey puck a little more. I tried it on the smooth concrete in the garage, and the grooves make no difference there. I tried it on the concrete sidewalk again, but this time I tried pushing it parallel to the grooves to confirm that they don't provide extra grip in that orientation, and they don't. It definitely makes a difference when perpendicular to the direction of travel. The concrete sidewalk I was using was swept and in good condition, but even after sweeping there is some very fine grit that never goes away entirely. If it's on a swept sidewalk, it's probably on the road too.

 

[labman]

Cold hardens rubber. I would think tires would wear less in the cold.

I think we have gone backwards over the last 20 years on traction. More so with the speed rated tires suitable for driving like a maniac on smooth, dry, warm roads, but inappropriate for most others and my driving. A big thanks to the tire companies and ABA for forcing them on us.

 

[Colt]

Go with all season tires.
Why take a chance?
With summer tires you'll lose traction and your panic braking stopping distance will be longer.
You will also have a harsh ride.

 

[Riptide]

The choice is already made. I have what I have.

The question for me was whether I should sell my current M&S pirellis to a friend who wants them.

If I drove the car often in the winter it would be a no brainer. The debate comes in because I will drive the car sparingly in the winter and only on dry (but cold) pavement.

 

[y_p_w]

Originally Posted By: Riptide
The choice is already made. I have what I have.

The question for me was whether I should sell my current M&S pirellis to a friend who wants them.

If I drove the car often in the winter it would be a no brainer. The debate comes in because I will drive the car sparingly in the winter and only on dry (but cold) pavement.

I really don't see any issue with accelerated treadwear. The main issue is that true summer tires (and those Nittos are as such) can get very difficult to drive on the road when cold. I've experienced that firsthand, although not quite freezing temps. If it's really cold, we're talking about the potential for sliding around uncontrollably like that Bimmer referenced earlier.

There might be some 3-season tires that are a bit more forgiving on cold, dry pavement, but you don't seem to have them.

Obviously, you live in a climate with a long, cold winter.

Is there any reason why you need to drive it around periodically? If it's to maintain the battery, then a small automatic trickle charger would do the trick. If you need to work out the engine, just idling it until warm generally isn't a problem with most modern cars.