Student loans starting to bite the economy

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Originally Posted By: d00df00d
The REAL blameworthy party is [insert narrative that justifies preferred style of righteous indignation].

Obviously.

What the heck do you think this is, a real problem in the real world that merits complex and nuanced analysis? You take that junk out of here. The problem is simple, and anyone who disagrees must be [literally all negative adjectives].


I think you were spot on.

http://www.bbc.com/capital/story/2017100...ut-young-adults
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Free education for all will fix this right?


Wouldn't that be nice. I think some estimates have been that recent military budget increases alone could pay for that.
 
From my experience and observations: You are judged as unsuccessful without a fancy degree. You got an get that fancy degree and due to the economy/high cost of living in this country, you cant get a decent job in your field and you settle for less and cannot ever get out of debt and you are classed as middle class so that means you must have lots of money so the government wont give you a break... or is that more of a rant?? A very good friend of mine, highly intelligent that graduated with some sort of systems something engineering degree is working casual at a large firm in Calgary because the economy is bad and there is an abundance of engineers kicking around. Another has taken a lesser job with his fancy engineering degree, just to ensure there is food on the table for the kids.

I also went to tech school after university, where we did a lot more hands on, labs and applied learning. Cost less but was more intense than the vast array of useless electives taken in university. When we graduated our program, everyone in all three of the engineering programs had jobs lined up. Well except one person. She just wanted a holiday before getting back to work. We had companies from all over western Canada and as far as New Zealand bugging us. One day, not long after graduation, while on a day off from training in my current job, I was at the range with my wife (then gf) and some guy approached me because I was wearing my program shirt. Gave me a card and after a short talk wanted me to come in for an interview.

Back on track, people take out loans and spend huge money to waste it in the universities taking a load of useless classes (I wish I had time to list out the useless junk my brother had to take with his computer programming degree) and cant get a decent job so they cant pay off these loans. We live in a world where no one wants to get their hands dirty, everyone wants to be the boss but everything costs way too much money.
 
Student loans are no different than any other. What name or title you wrap a loan package with has nothing to do with how it is going to be paid back. Just because someone is willing to loan you money doesn't mean you have to accept it. Plenty of blame to go around here. Student loans are becoming the same as home mortgages were in and around the 2006-2008 housing bubble.

They were all based on the bigger idiot theory. Home mortgages then, just like student loans now, are being given out based on the ability of future income or equity to pay them off. The future is guaranteed to no one. People signed on to ARM, interest only mortgage loans with a 5 year balloon interest rate, because they were all banking on the value of their home going up. They could then refinance in 5 years with all of their new found equity. When that didn't happen, they couldn't stay and make the increased balloon payment because they couldn't afford it. And they found they couldn't get out by selling, because the home was worth less than half of what they owed.

So they walked away, and thus triggered the collapse of the entire market. The banks and the government made matters worse by approving these idiots, who had no business in the housing market to begin with. But liberal people in government were all pushing the position that, "everyone deserves to own a house". Again, the bigger idiot theory played out to the max.

Fast forward to today's student loan fiasco. Same song, different dance. These college professors, along with assorted other liberals are all pushing that, "Everyone must have a college degree". So we now have these kids seeking degrees in underwater basket weaving. Or else Tibetan dance culture. And they are spending a borrowed fortune getting them. Only to find when they graduate there is no one willing to employ them. They are taught that they MUST have a college degree, and trade and tech schools are for idiots.

So they come out of college owing well into 5 figures, and sometimes 6. Then they are subjected to the rude awakening that they can't pay off their student loans waiting tables at Applebee's. What were they thinking? And what were the people who loaned them the money thinking? When I went into trade school, I knew how much a 1st through 5th year apprentice made. And what Journeymen in my trade all earned. As well as the demand for qualified apprentices on the job market. It's not rocket science to research this stuff. Mike Rowe said it best.... "We are loaning money we don't have, to kids who can't pay it back. To train them for jobs that no longer exist".
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Per the article...

Quote:
From 2007 through 2017, the CPI rose by 21 percent. Over that same period, college tuition costs jumped 63 percent, school housing surged 51 percent and the price of textbooks by 88 percent. These troubling growth rates wipe away any mystery behind today’s staggering levels of student loan debt, which have almost tripled from the 2007 starting point of $545 billion


So the students are to blame for that ???
Yes.
 
What is also a problem is the amount of companies that seem to value a degree above actual smarts. I've specifically run into this twice. In one of my first jobs in my 20's I was told a new employee with no experience was going to be paid more than me because he had a university degree vs my college degree. We were both driving those paper shredding trucks. But, because the owner had a university degree...well that just made the new guy better...he lasted a month and got fired after telling a customer to F-off for being asked to lift some boxes (part of the job!). The second time was about 10 years ago and I worked with (not for) a large US company. There was one guy who knew the company inside and out better than anyone and was also the smartest and most capable to run it. He was stuck in the #4 management spot with 3 clueless airheads above him...why? No degree. The company wouldn't promote anyone beyond a managerial role to an executive role simply because they had no degree. He was a good guy....I hope he found a way to embezzle the pay difference out of the company.
 
Or, we could strive to have an education system like Norway, Sweden, Finland, Germany, France, etc....

No way that would make too much sense.
 
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Whatever happened to working your way through college?
I've done it twice!!!


How I did it. But College/University here is much less expensive than schools in the US.
 
Originally Posted By: PiperOne
What is also a problem is the amount of companies that seem to value a degree above actual smarts.


^^ This.


I left a job that technically (from the company perspective) required a degree. I flourished in that job for over 6 years and did very well at it and always got excellent yearly reviews and raises. I only got the job because I had worked closely with the person who had been doing it that had moved on, and I was familiar enought that I filled in while they searched for a replacement but eventually was just given the position since I did very well at it.

In the pursuit of greener pastures I took a different job at another company and after the 9/11 attacks occured, our business suffered badly and I could see the business headed to shutting down (it did) and I decided to apply for my old job back, as I had heard from a friend that still worked there that the position was open again. The company had sold to another firm but was pretty much being run as it had been, and was doing well so I applied. Not long after, I received a rejection notifying me that I was "unqualified for the position" due to lack of a degree. I had a polite conversation with the person who rejected me that I had been in that job for over 6 years and would require no training and most of the policies and procedures currently being used in that job were of my creation, and that I was literally more qualified than anyone. I was told again that the job required a minimum of a bachelors degree (in ANY field), and sorry, not qualified. I asked how I could be unqualified for a position that I had for 6 years and had personally molded into what it currently was. After some uncomfortable silence I told them thanks anyway and I was no longer interested in working there.

My current supervisor applied for his old job back a few years ago, that he had been in for almost 20 years. No degree, just 20 years experience. Rejected, no degree. Lost out to a kid fresh out of college that had an engineering degree, with absolutely no experience (or knowledge) of the type of equipment he would be operating, that really has no need for an engineering degree (or any degree for that matter) to operate. The kicker? They offered to hire him as a temp to train the new guy on how to do the job! Amazing.
 
Colleges charge what people will pay. They know the student loan game and raise their prices accordingly. This is all under the myth, that in order to be successful you must go to college. I think there really needs to be a more pragmatic approach to going to college (unless you are from wealth...when basically nothing matters). What are you going to be able to do when you graduate? Will this make money? Is this worth taking out X amount in loans. If not, you might want to take a different route. I love history but understood that getting a history degree probably wasn't the smartest degree to acquire if I wanted a skill to make money when I got out of school.
 
Choosing degree major will have serious implications (good or bad) down the road.

Still lots of stable good paying careers available.
 
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Whatever happened to working your way through college?
I've done it twice!!!
What year was this?
 
Maybe not with engineering or medical school..... but lots of people work and attend college with a full time load of credits.

Millions of people do both at the same time.

That means less time playing Xbox , drinking beer, attending college sports games, Facebook, or watching KimK on TV.
smirk.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Per the article...

Quote:
From 2007 through 2017, the CPI rose by 21 percent. Over that same period, college tuition costs jumped 63 percent, school housing surged 51 percent and the price of textbooks by 88 percent. These troubling growth rates wipe away any mystery behind today’s staggering levels of student loan debt, which have almost tripled from the 2007 starting point of $545 billion


So the students are to blame for that ???


The 'education industry' had many winners....unfortunately not many of them were students.

Don't forget to put some blame on the pols that 'guaranteed' student loans....thus enabling those out of proportion rises in costs...
 
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Whatever happened to working your way through college?
I've done it twice!!!
What year was this?


I got my degrees in 1988 and 1998.
 
Student loan debt is no different than any other debt.

While driving to make my mandated visit to my mother-in-law, my wife and I drove through the Livermore, Tracy, Stockton areas of California. For an entire stretch of 75 miles there was nothing but new road, housing, and infrastructure development. I am talking "development" on a massive scale with thousands of workers using hundreds of huge machines.

I told my wife that, "See all that? All that is being built with debt. None of those projects are being paid for with cash".

Read some of Peter Schiff's books. Our debt-based financial model will collapse one day, and soon.

Student loans have nothing to do with it. Home mortgages of auto loans "bite the economy" too.

Scott
 
Originally Posted By: SLO_Town
Our debt-based financial model will collapse one day, and soon.
Scott


The piper must get paid and what goes up must come down... ALWAYS!
 
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