Stuck Starter Bolt

[SIXSPEED]

I am trying to replace the starter on my 2004 Odyssey; I can remove the upper bolt and was able to break loose the lower bolt, but the lower bolt appears to have cross-threaded and binds. I'm afraid if I crank on it harder, the bolt will break and then I'll be really stuck. Any suggestions?

I sprayed PB Blaster on the block side where the bolt enters the tranny housing hoping that will help. Will try to work it back and forth tomorrow.

 

[cmf]

February 2, 2008
Machinist's Workshop V20 number 2, April/May 2007, page 35

Article: “Testing Penetrating oils”
This reports a test of penetrating oils where they measured
the force required to loosen rusty test devices. The
details reported here were validated by the original
article author. He also added some details on the methods.
You must buy the issue if you want to see how they did the
test. The back issue is available for purchase.
The table below extracts the results table The lower the
number of pounds the better.


Penetrating oil - Average load -Price per fluid ounce
None ...............516 pounds -- 0
WD-40 ..............238 pounds --$0.25
PB Blaster..........214 pounds --$0.35
Liquid Wrench ......127 pounds --$0.21
Kano Kroil .........106 pounds --$0.75
ATF-Acetone mix ....53 pounds ---$0.10 (50/50 mix)

Note from original article author:
1) These are loads required to free the test piece after
8 hours of immersion in penetrating oil. This is
probably not representative of a quick squirt just
before a wrench is applied.

In short, ATF-Acetone mix if it's a good area for that. If not go with Liquid Wrench Penetrating Oil or Kroil. Liquid Wrench is available at stores like Lowes or Home Depot.

 

[CharBaby]

It's odd that the OE bolts are cross threaded from the factory but I guess it's possible. I'd spray somemore and remove the bolt slowly.

Once you remove the bolt, look good at the bolt and even try(with the starter removed), threading it back in slowly to see if there is any binding or cross threading going on.

Even try the bottom bolt in the top position/switching them out with one another, unless each bolt is a different length as they sometimes are.

Replace the bolt if needed although it may be hard to find or match.

 

[SIXSPEED]

One theory offered on another forum is the steel to Aluminum interface may have corroded and when I broke the bolt free some of the Aluminum thread material in the case may have lodged into the threads of the bolt.

 

[George7941]

Corrosion builds up where the unthreaded section of the starter bolt passes thru the body of the starter. The problem may not be with the threaded section of the bolt. Seen this many times.

 

[SIXSPEED]

Originally Posted By: George7941
Corrosion builds up where the unthreaded section of the starter bolt passes thru the body of the starter. The problem may not be with the threaded section of the bolt. Seen this many times.

There's no corrosion there. If I loosen the top bolt I can pull the starter back to the head of the bottom bolt, which is backed off by about 1/4".

 

[SIXSPEED]

Originally Posted By: SIXSPEED

I sprayed PB Blaster on the block side where the bolt enters the tranny housing hoping that will help. Will try to work it back and forth tomorrow.

Finally got the bolt off; it's the longer one in the picture below. Given the length of the un-threaded shank, I am not sure any of the lube actually made it to the threads. I just kept cranking with a ratcheting breaker bar until it finally loosened up. Notice the buggered up threads near the tip. It would have been bad news if the bolt broke. I have a new bolt on order. Hopefully it will go back together without issue.

Thanks for all the help!

 

[mechtech2]

I'd check the threads in the hole.
Can you run a tap in it?

 

[SIXSPEED]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
I'd check the threads in the hole.
Can you run a tap in it?
Not sure my tap will reach the threads in the housing ... but will check. I have the new bolts.

 

[mechanicx]

Originally Posted By: cmf
February 2, 2008
Machinist's Workshop V20 number 2, April/May 2007, page 35

Article: “Testing Penetrating oils”
This reports a test of penetrating oils where they measured
the force required to loosen rusty test devices. The
details reported here were validated by the original
article author. He also added some details on the methods.
You must buy the issue if you want to see how they did the
test. The back issue is available for purchase.
The table below extracts the results table The lower the
number of pounds the better.


Penetrating oil - Average load -Price per fluid ounce
None ...............516 pounds -- 0
WD-40 ..............238 pounds --$0.25
PB Blaster..........214 pounds --$0.35
Liquid Wrench ......127 pounds --$0.21
Kano Kroil .........106 pounds --$0.75
ATF-Acetone mix ....53 pounds ---$0.10 (50/50 mix)

Note from original article author:
1) These are loads required to free the test piece after
8 hours of immersion in penetrating oil. This is
probably not representative of a quick squirt just
before a wrench is applied.

In short, ATF-Acetone mix if it's a good area for that. If not go with Liquid Wrench Penetrating Oil or Kroil. Liquid Wrench is available at stores like Lowes or Home Depot.


Those results seems a little odd or surprising. PB Blaster has worked for me much better than Liquid Wrench.

 

[Rick in PA]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
I'd check the threads in the hole.
Can you run a tap in it?


X2 That was my gut reaction on seeing the bolt. Just be super careful.

 

[SIXSPEED]

Originally Posted By: Rick in PA
Originally Posted By: mechtech2
I'd check the threads in the hole.
Can you run a tap in it?


X2 That was my gut reaction on seeing the bolt. Just be super careful.

The taps are too short. I am trying to find a M12 x 1.25 chaser on-line for a reasonable price. A thread chaser will clean-up the threads without cutting as much metal. Then I need to find a way to extend the bit about 4 inches.

 

[CharBaby]

Glad that you got new bolts; starters put out lots of torque

Have you tried cleaning out the threaded hole and re-threading in the longer bolt(alone) to see if all is OK?

I realize it may be difficult to get at and get something into the hole but, you gotta give it a try. Even a rag on a long screwdriver and turning counter clockwise. Then, just a dab of Never-Seize on the threads on the bolts and reinstall.

Just my .02cents

Take your time and "do it right/do it once" as this will probably be the last starter you'll have to install on that vehicle.

 

[SIXSPEED]

Typical taps are too short to reach the threads so instead I made a thread chaser by grinding a flat spot on the threads down just below the minor diameter of the new bolt ... put some silver anti-seize on the threads and just worked the modified bolt through the hole where it was binding and then backing up. When the bolt hit a bigger snag, I cranked on it a little more and then backed the bolt out completely to clean off any metal shavings stuck to the anti-seize. Continued this until the bolt bottomed out and the head was just below the 0.9" starter flange thickness. Then I installed the starter and made sure the bolts could be tightened against the flange. I should be able to wrap up this project once my new bolt arrives.

 

[Rick in PA]

That's a nice trick, I'll have to remember it. Thanks for posting the picture.

 

[CharBaby]

Good idea, nice work and pictures!

 

[Trav]

You can also make a poor man's clean up tap by cutting 4 vertical lines in the bolt threads with a dremel cutting disc, it works great for a single use.

 

[SIXSPEED]

Starter project is done!

These home-made thread chasers require a very high strength bolt (Grade 8/Class 10.9).