STP, SuperTech, Bosch, Champion Labs "2808" and "3593a"

[ChrisW]

Hello. I have recently done a search on the board, read about all these filters and am a bit confused.

From what I understand, the number 2808 crosses between each manufacturer. However, today, I cannot find a 2808 from walmart, only the 3593a, but can find only 2808 from STP at autozone. The pics that I have seen of both the ST2808 and ST3593a, the 3593a looks superior in that it has much more pleats.http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=6;t=001112#000000

My question is, does anyone know when ST made the switch from the 2808 to the 3593a, and are those pics of the 3593a (on NTPOG) of another revision? If the insides of the ST3593a's that are on the shelves of walmart right now are like the pic of the ST2808 in the first link, would it be better going for a STP2808 instead?

Is bosch and stp the only ones making the filters that look like the STP2808 in the link above? I can;t see this as being so because in the older NTPOG review, they show a ST3593a which looks like the now current STP2808. What's what??

If all else fails, I do have a napa and carquest near me that I can get wix filters from, and can always go for their filters, but I like the fact that the ST3593a (from the NTPOG review) was pretty good and is $2. I have two STP2808 that I plan to use up, but would be worried if the STP2808 look like the ST2808 in the link above.
NTPOG also makes mention of this change of the ST2808 filter on their page, and does not reccomend getting the ST2808 anymore.

My order of filters would be:
1. Wix/Napa/Carquest x1334
2. Purolator PureOne PL14459/PL24458 (PL24458 is
becoming harder to find, is PL24457 equvilant?)
3. SuperTech 3593a
4. STP 2808
5. Bosch (dunno the number)

But I'd maybe put the champ labs ones slightly over the Wix filters because they cost less, but the wix supposedly have a better bypass valve instead of champ labs "clicker." I'm just trying to find a filter to settle on.

Thanks in advance and happy holidays.

-Chris

 

[labman]

If your application doesn't need a bypass valve, look for an AC 1177. Gobs of filter area, 200+ sq. in., and no bypass valve to leak

 

[kevint]

Be wary of the 3593a. It is the same model number as the Fram filter for the Honda. Cut one open and look for the cardboard.

 

[sbc350gearhead]

Frams and ST's share part numbers, but not design and construction.

 

[ChrisW]

quote:

---

Originally posted by sbc350gearhead:
Frams and ST's share part numbers, but not design and construction.

---

I believe why ST made the switch to the ST3593a designation was for simplpicity reasons.

Fram (allied signal) is a whole different company from Champion labs. The numbers may be the same as stated, but they different.

 

[Ray H]

There were quite a few discussions on this board when Walmart suddenly pulled ST 2808s from the shelves late last year. The official word from Champion Labs at the time was that the shift was to streamline stocking and that the ST 3593As were fully compatible, physically, bypass pressure calibration, and flow rate with the older ST 2808s. I haven't cut either type open, but the bypass valves in the ST 3593As are the flat disc/leaf spring style, while in the ST 2808s it's the coil spring style. Personally I don't believe it matters, but if you do, the Purolator "PremiumPLUS" (or its Pep Boys "ProLine" sibling), 14459, still uses a coil spring bypass valve. Over the years I've used 'em all in various Hyundais and Hondas. Never had a problem with any of 'em. By the way, many Hyundai dealers in the U.S. sell the Hyundai oil filter, three for $9.98. These are a heavy and very well-built filter. From what I could see, they appear to have been designed by Mann but made in Korea.

 

[Al]

From past discussions-I have read that the 7317 should work. It will physically fit-I'm not sure of the bypass setting though.

 

[Slick 55]

I have a ST2808 I will mail to you to cut apart and post pics for the board. PM me your address.

 

[GROUCHO MARX]

Not extending drain intervals? Then I wouldn't worry.

 

[ChrisW]

quote:

---

Originally posted by GROUCHO MARX:
Not extending drain intervals? Then I wouldn't worry.

---

Yeah, thats what I figured; as long as it isn't a fram (I say this because you can get better quality for less than what fram costs).

Would a 5k interval be considered extended?

 

[Al]

quote:

---

Originally posted by ChrisW:

quote:

---

Originally posted by GROUCHO MARX:
Not extending drain intervals? Then I wouldn't worry.

---

Yeah, thats what I figured; as long as it isn't a fram (I say this because you can get better quality for less than what fram costs).

Would a 5k interval be considered extended?

---

You should be more than good at 5K miles .

 

[TC]

Personally I'm not sold on the new clicker bypass valves, so I'd skip the Champion line altogether. One man's admittedly controversial opinion.

The Wix 51568, Baldwin B168, and PureOne 24458 filters have awesome media area if they'll fit under your hood, with areas of 242, 213, and XXX square inches, respectively (the 24458 has about half again as much area as the 14459). I doubt if L/PL24458 filters will be dissappearing anytime soon since they're Purolator's standard replacement for all Hondas of the very late 1980s.

But since price is of concern to you, I'd suggest the Purolator L24458. It has substantial media area and pretty good quality. It may (or may not) have cardboard end caps, but unlike the Frams, that's where the cheapness ends (Frams also have modest media area, few center tube holes, and poor bypass/drainback valves as well). I think the L24458 is your best bet for a low-cost filter. (The AC Delco -- I think it's #1127? -- might be a good choice as well since the ones I've seen still have a coil spring bypass valve.)

[ December 10, 2003, 09:15 PM: Message edited by: TC ]

 

[ChrisW]

I went to pepboys and found the following filters and prices in my local area:

Proline PLL24458: $2.49
Purolator L24458: $2.99
ACDelco 1127 (or PF57): $3.49
Purolator PL24458: $4.99
Purolator PL14459: $4.99

I didn't find these at pepboys, but other stores:
Wix 52334: $4.69 (from rockauto.com)
Napa Gold 1334: $6.03
Carquest 85334: $6.83

All these filters have the spring instead of the clicker. I know that the proline filters are the same as the "L" purolators. Even though the 1127 from AC is smaller than the 24458, is it worth the $.50 more; is the AC better built than the 24458 (metal endcaps for sure, does the AC have silicone adbv)? I've read that the (L and PL) 24458 are flow restrictive?

TIA

-Chris

 

[TC]

Rightly or wrongly, I'll assume the AC #1127 has roughly the same media area as its Champion cousin, the STP #2808, at about 108 sq in, nothing impressive. I have little doubt that the "oversize" Purolator L24458 has substantially more area than that. Unless I know a specific filter has been shown to be flow deficient through actual flow testing, I go strictly by media area, when available. None of these low-end filters should have silicone ADBVs, which can be seen through the open end and are red/orange, as opposed to black. I wouldn't worry too much about that unless your lifters chatter for a period at start-up. I'd suggest you go with the L24458 for an inexpensive option (I wouldn't worry about the cardboard end caps like I would with the Fram -- see above). The three Wix variants and PureOne you mentioned are all better filters, but are more expensive as well. They're all good choices if you don't mind spending a few more bucks.

 

[Mobil2]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Al:
From past discussions-I have read that the 7317 should work. It will physically fit-I'm not sure of the bypass setting though.

---

My RSX Type S uses a 7317 stock, but I'm running a slightly oversize 3593a Fram X2 now. A member here and also on ClubRSX.com (Jay) cut these open and there wasn't too much difference except for the can and both share the same bypass setting, gasket and thread size. I've done hard track days with both of these filter sizes and no probelms.

 

[Bebop]

The SuperTech 7317 still uses the spring type by-pass valve. I think I'll stock up on them for my Honda before someone decides to make changes to it.

 

[passcord]

If you are looking for ST-2808, I saw very same AC-1127 with old style rounded gasket and coil spring style bypass valve in Autozone. At $3.49 it is not bad but not a bargain basement ether.

 

[gerhardb]

I'm the guy that did the recent NTPOG update.

I have taken full pictures of the 2808 and the 3593A version of the filter.

Both are made by Champion Labs... the newer one (the 3593A) is much nicer... but it still uses the clicker-type bypass valve.

My tests using a pen on the clicker with a ST3693A did not yeild good results.

The pictures are here:

http://elabfcsvrt.fdu.edu/bartsch/Prelude/HondaPreludeOilFilters/

Oh, and my order of choice would be:

- Mobil 1, K&N, AC Delco, AMSOIL
- Wix, Fram x2
- everything else.

Keep in mind that I change my oil every 7500 miles.

Gerhard

[ January 05, 2004, 01:44 PM: Message edited by: gerhardb ]