Start up lifter noise

[Astro14]

They can and do leak down overnight (or longer) and tick when cold in some engines and can be very normal especially in colder climates. Subaru and Mitsubishi and VW all have TSB's on this issue. The fix is to drive them at 3K + rpm for 5 min. VW says as long as it goes away (one some engines like the old 2.0) consider it normal (they have had issues since the Vanagon days when they put hydraulics in them). Varnish can also cause this due to sticking but that noise is usually constant and doesn't go away.
Some Subaru engine will rattle like marbles in a can if let sitting for a week or more, a horrible racket, give it a good run and it will go silent, the lifters bled down and are air bound, 100% normal for these.

Of course with most engines this is not normal and cracked exhaust manifolds are a common issue as is high pressure fuel pump cam lobe erosion on some engines, secondary air pumps and some other issues can all make similar noise. Finding the root source can be a bit of a pain as some of these systems only run for a short time when the engine is cold.

Then, I suppose I am fortunate.

I've never owned one of those cars...

 

[Trav]

On 99% of the engines it is not normal as you said, this seems to happen more with lifters that are mounted on their side and the ones under spring pressure at shut down tend to bleed down. Knowing the source of the noise and what if anything can or needs to be done about it is important.
Climate definitely plays a part.

 

[zrxkawboy]

Wix/NAPA Gold always worked well on our 3.8.

 

[OilUzer]

I assume ADBV does not matter in the cars where the oil filter is upside down and the oil can't drain. No?
I have couple of cars like that. Is that a better design in general?

 

[Trav]

I assume ADBV does not matter in the cars where the oil filter is upside down and the oil can't drain. No?
I have couple of cars like that. Is that a better design in genetal?

In general I much prefer the filter mounted in a way it doesn't require an ADBV, some engines with that design still require one because of the location of the oil galley in relation to the filter outlet. Look at the filter specs and see if it has an ADBV if it doesn't then it doesn't need one.
There is no issues using a filter with one if all other specs are the same when it is not required but not the other way around.

 

[Silver]

Could be an ADBV problem.

This. Especially if THERE'S NOT ONE. Fram is bad at not using ADBV's.

 

[Skippy722]

This. Especially if THERE'S NOT ONE. Fram is bad at not using ADBV's.

Every Fram I’ve ever bought had a ADVB?

 

[OVERKILL]

This. Especially if THERE'S NOT ONE. Fram is bad at not using ADBV's.

?
If the application calls for an ADBV, they use one, if it doesn't, they don't. FRAM isn't just winging it. There are filter applications that don't call for a bypass either because it's integrated into the housing (like numerous GM applications).

 

[aquariuscsm]

Is this your first time using Maxlife? What were the previous oils used?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Are you guys saying the oil flow is blocked or reduced for a few seconds with certain oil filters?

Impossible with a positive displacement oil pump - unless the pump is totally shot. It was most likely a leaky ADBV if it's only noisy at cold start-ups. Plus the engine must be very sensitive to "dry starts". I have never had any vehicle make start-up noises, even after an oil change at first start-up when the filter and oil galleries are completely empty of oil.

 

[ZeeOSix]

I assume ADBV does not matter in the cars where the oil filter is upside down and the oil can't drain. No?
I have couple of cars like that. Is that a better design in general?

Still needs an ADBV if there are oil galleries above the filter location. The filter may not drain out, but oil in galleries above the filter can drain out if no ADBV is used or the ADBV is bad.

 

[350Rocket]

Impossible with a positive displacement oil pump - unless the pump is totally shot. It was most likely a leaky ADBV if it's only noisy at cold start-ups. Plus the engine must be very sensitive to "dry starts". I have never had any vehicle make start-up noises, even after an oil change at first start-up when the filter and oil galleries are completely empty of oil.

I know when I was doing oil changes in the express lube for at least a year, a lot of vehicles were sensitive to dry starts. I can't remember enough to give a rough percentage but I'd guess we'll over 1/4 of all vehicles made noise when restarted after the oil change. I used to pre oil the cartridge filter on 2.2 ecotecs cause I couldn't stand the timing chain rattle that happened on the initial startup otherwise.

 

[demarpaint]

They can and do leak down overnight (or longer) and tick when cold in some engines and can be very normal especially in colder climates. Subaru and Mitsubishi and VW all have TSB's on this issue. The fix is to drive them at 3K + rpm for 5 min. VW says as long as it goes away (one some engines like the old 2.0) consider it normal (they have had issues since the Vanagon days when they put hydraulics in them). Varnish can also cause this due to sticking but that noise is usually constant and doesn't go away.
Some Subaru engine will rattle like marbles in a can if let sitting for a week or more, a horrible racket, give it a good run and it will go silent, the lifters bled down and are air bound, 100% normal for these.

Of course with most engines this is not normal and cracked exhaust manifolds are a common issue as is high pressure fuel pump cam lobe erosion on some engines, secondary air pumps and some other issues can all make similar noise. Finding the root source can be a bit of a pain as some of these systems only run for a short time when the engine is cold.

+1 Good info! It seems to be the norm in a lot of engines today. As long as it goes away in a couple of seconds I'd say motor on, it's normal.

One thing I did notice with my 2016 Wrangler is this, moving from 5W20 to 5W30 extended how long it could sit, from about 1 week to a month, w/o noticeable start up noise.

 

[THORROMIG]

My Ram in signature will tick acouple seconds after sitting with a Super Tech oil filter without starting for a day or two. Using a Fram Ultra totally eliminated that. Have ran Super Tech oil filters on my Baja and Acura in signature with no problems at start up ever that I can recall.

 

[OilUzer]

Still needs an ADBV if there are oil galleries above the filter location. The filter may not drain out, but oil in galleries above the filter can drain out if no ADBV is used or the ADBV is bad.

good to know. @Trav also said the thing.
I need to study different systems in more detail. I've just looked at some high level flow diagrams.
I thought the oil is pumped from the pan where oil is always present (through the filter) and the the only thing that can drain out is the filter ...
need to add "oil galleries" to my research list.

 

[demarpaint]

good to know. @Trav also said the thing.
I need to study different systems in more detail. I've just looked at some high level flow diagrams.
I thought the oil is pumped from the pan where oil is always present (through the filter) and the the only thing that can drain out is the filter ...
need to add "oil galleries" to my research list.

Add lifters to it too.