Standards for oil filters

[motorguy222]

Haley is right.Has anyone cut open a used filter and backflushed it with water?

I have,there is a LARGE amount of very fine dirt that will flow from the filtering material.

You dont see this just by looking at the filter,you have to backflush it.

The more dirt that a filter gets out of an engine,the better.

 

[Ugly3]

TC - The AC Delco/Detroit Diesel SAE study concluded that "Particles from 2-22 microns are most likely to cause damage" and that "Controlling the abrasive contaminants in the range of 2-22 microns in the lube oil is necessary for controlling engine wear."

Yea, I have seen this time after time. My problem with this info is that it does hot hold up in the real world. The vast majority of cars are running filters that do not pick up this size material. The engines run hundreds of thousands of miles. So my take is: if you want your engine to last 600,000 miles put in a bypass filter system, if you only want 300,000 miles put in any full flow filter that does not fall apart.

 

[T-Keith]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ugly3:
Eighty % of the cars on the road in the USA are serviced at a quick lube place with the most inexpensive filter that can be found. Cars are running well in excess of 100,000 miles with no problem. How important can a "better" oil filter be?

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They also run the most inexpensive oil that can be found. Should we all be running bulk dino oil from these vendors. Come on, that kind of logic goes against the point of the board. To find a better oil and filter.


-T

 

[Ugly3]

T-Keith - They also run the most inexpensive oil that can be found. Should we all be running bulk dino oil from these vendors. Come on, that kind of logic goes against the point of the board. To find a better oil and filter.

Well, I guess we will also disagree on the objective too. I think the objective of the board is to determine truth. If the truth is that a Group I dino and a SuperTech filter will run your typical engine 200,000 miles - so be it.

If synthetic oil and a Mobil 1 oil filter provide significant benefit for the typical user - so be it.

I simply have not seen the data that demonstrates a premium full flow oil filter will provide longer engine life. I have seen lots of data (tests and real world) that suggests there is little difference.

That said, I run 5w30 Mobil 1 and a Puroplator Pure One oil filter. I generally run 10,000 mile OCIs and it has worked well for me. When someone asks why I waste money on synthetic oils I can point to the cold start advantages of synthetic oils and the extended drains tend to off set the premium price. When asked why I use a "premium" oil filter I have no answer other than I think it might be better and it does not cost that much more. But I have no data to demonstrate the point.

 

[motorguy222]

quote:

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Originally posted by XS650:

quote:

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Originally posted by motorguy222:
Haley is right.Has anyone cut open a used filter and backflushed it with water?

I have,there is a LARGE amount of very fine dirt that will flow from the filtering material.

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What's your technique? I have some cut open spread out used filter elements in my garage that I was going to throw away, might as well learn something from them first. They all look clean to the nekkid eye, but I'm sure they are holding some fine cr@p.

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The way I do it is,I cut the filter can open.
I keep the filter element intact,I don't cut it at all.
This way you have the WHOLE filter unit/element in one piece.

I then take the filter and put the outlet end on a faucet.A water hose could probably be used also.

I used the kitchen faucet and a small bucket to catch the water that backflushed through the filter element.

Be careful,if you are married,the wife may not need to see this.

If the element you are testing has a relief valve,plug it up some way so that the water must backflush through the element.

Slowly turn on the water,keeping as tight of fit to the water supply as possible and watch for the ooze to begin.

When it does,you should be able to turn the water on a little more.

When you do,you should be able to see a fine black watery goo start to come out of the element.
It is a very fine dirt/sludge that comes out.

While some may say that it wont make a difference,I say any dirt that is filtered out is GOOD for MY engine.

 

[Ken2]

Back to the original question...

There are few industry standards for filters. The engine maker designs a filter for that engine (or picks a pre-existing design). In most cases those filter design specs are not published. The aftermarket filter makers reverse-engineer the OEM filter. They either pick a filter from their existing line to somewhat match to the OEM filter or they produce a new item for that engine. Some filter makers make more compromises than others with filter selection to keep a smaller product line.

If you're using an aftermarket filter spec'd for your engine and that filter fails, the filter maker is on the hook for damages. If you're using a filter not spec'd for the engine, then you're on the hook. If the filter fails but no one notices at the time, the filter maker is off the hook.


Ken

 

[Ugly3]

quote:

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Originally posted by motorguy222:

While some may say that it wont make a difference,I say any dirt that is filtered out is GOOD for MY engine.

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But would a SuperTech filter for $2.07 do a better job than a Mobil 1 filter for $10.00?

An old QA buddy of mine told me a long time ago "if you can't measure it you can't improve it" and I think that holds true here. Seeing a bunch of dirt coming out of a used filter is nice. But if it is not quantified then we have no idea if one filter is any more effective than another in keeping our engines clean.

 

[427Z06]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ken2:
Back to the original question...

There are few industry standards for filters. The engine maker designs a filter for that engine (or picks a pre-existing design). In most cases those filter design specs are not published. The aftermarket filter makers reverse-engineer the OEM filter. They either pick a filter from their existing line to somewhat match to the OEM filter or they produce a new item for that engine. Some filter makers make more compromises than others with filter selection to keep a smaller product line.

If you're using an aftermarket filter spec'd for your engine and that filter fails, the filter maker is on the hook for damages. If you're using a filter not spec'd for the engine, then you're on the hook. If the filter fails but no one notices at the time, the filter maker is off the hook.


Ken

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Ken, you continually impress me with your exellent posts.

 

[427Z06]

quote:

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Originally posted by Ugly3:
Here is a link to Bob (Is The Oil Guy) running without an oil filter. The UOA is on page four. Read it and weep!

BITOG - Running With No Oil Filter

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Another imterpretation of this test is that the increased flow from the removal of the filter more than offset the lack of a filter, which leads some credence to the oversized filter theory.

Although, not controlling all the variables and with a sample size of one, not much was proven.

 

[Steve S]

I used to work on forklifts the older models had engines with bypass filters , just like the ones on pre full flow cars. I can say that when pulling down an engine for rebuilds the bearings,crank and rods had way more wear than full flow filter engines using the same oil in both engines . This statement is fact not an opinion. There have been sae papers on how full flow filters extend engine life when compared to bypass only filters. Yes a partical count is needed to measure the filtering. Yes a M1 filter is a better filter in reguards to filtering when a partical count is used as compared to a Super tech filter.

 

[Filter guy]

This may help...

http://www.filtercouncil.org/techdata/tsbs/04-2.pdf