Wife ran over some screws in our neighborhood, all new construction, and we ended up having to replace the tires on the car yesterday. Car is a 15' Rogue Select and comes with 225/60 17 H tire from OEM. Had some Firestone Destination LE2 installed and they are in a T rating. Is this anything to be concerned about? My gut tells me no, but with a kid in the backseat I wonder.
Speed rating importance
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I would say that your gut is wrong. T rated tires aren't nearly as well built (structure) as H.
Check out Capriracer's site: http://www.barrystiretech.com/ in particular, this section: http://www.barrystiretech.com/speedratings.html
Simply: H is better, a lot better, for most drivers.
Check out Capriracer's site: http://www.barrystiretech.com/ in particular, this section: http://www.barrystiretech.com/speedratings.html
Simply: H is better, a lot better, for most drivers.
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Load rating is important as is speed rating. That said, I have run T rated tires on a "H" rated 4 Runner for 100,000 miles. If you don't do heavy hauling and don't drive over 110mph....you are fine. Do be sure to keep them inflated properly. Low inflation causes heat buildup which would be problematic. I keep my tires 2-3 psi over the recommended door sticker psi.
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Capriracer also suggests looking at the tire's construction, as indicated on the sidewall. You're looking for a cap ply in the tire's tread. You'll see two steel plies at a minimum, but you're also likely to see a third ply of either nylon or rayon or polyamide, etc. That's a cap ply, and that's what stabilizes the tread at higher speeds. It used to be true that, IN GENERAL, H-rated tires and above had a cap ply and T-rated and below did not. In my own experience, this has not been the case in about a decade -- most modern T-rated tires also have cap plies. Both of our vehicles are shod with T-rated tires and they have cap plies. In fact, our MDX's T-rated tires are even A-rated for temperature (which is not common for less than H-rated tires).
I think that the general rule that H-rated tires are built better than T-rated tires used to be more applicable than it is today. Speed ratings are as much about product placement in the market as anything else. A tire's construction and temperature ratings likely tell as much about a tire than its speed rating does.
I think that the general rule that H-rated tires are built better than T-rated tires used to be more applicable than it is today. Speed ratings are as much about product placement in the market as anything else. A tire's construction and temperature ratings likely tell as much about a tire than its speed rating does.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
I would say that your gut is wrong. T rated tires aren't nearly as well built (structure) as H.
Check out Capriracer's site: http://www.barrystiretech.com/ in particular, this section: http://www.barrystiretech.com/speedratings.html
Simply: H is better, a lot better, for most drivers.
Then when someone wishes to put winter tires on their vehicles for winter, a H-rated all-season would be better right? My Q-speed rated snow tires would be inferior in quality to the stock H-rated tires.
Why not go for say, a W-rated or Y-rated tire if you want the best.
or maybe get truck tires, the ones with more plies, they may have a lower speed rating, they their structure is built better than tires made for passenger cars.
I would say that your gut is wrong. T rated tires aren't nearly as well built (structure) as H.
Check out Capriracer's site: http://www.barrystiretech.com/ in particular, this section: http://www.barrystiretech.com/speedratings.html
Simply: H is better, a lot better, for most drivers.
Then when someone wishes to put winter tires on their vehicles for winter, a H-rated all-season would be better right? My Q-speed rated snow tires would be inferior in quality to the stock H-rated tires.
Why not go for say, a W-rated or Y-rated tire if you want the best.
or maybe get truck tires, the ones with more plies, they may have a lower speed rating, they their structure is built better than tires made for passenger cars.
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: Astro14
I would say that your gut is wrong. T rated tires aren't nearly as well built (structure) as H.
Check out Capriracer's site: http://www.barrystiretech.com/ in particular, this section: http://www.barrystiretech.com/speedratings.html
Simply: H is better, a lot better, for most drivers.
Then when someone wishes to put winter tires on their vehicles for winter, a H-rated all-season would be better right? My Q-speed rated snow tires would be inferior in quality to the stock H-rated tires.
Why not go for say, a W-rated or Y-rated tire if you want the best.
or maybe get truck tires, the ones with more plies, they may have a lower speed rating, they their structure is built better than tires made for passenger cars.
It depends how you drive, of course, but you're arguing against the tire engineer (Capriracer).
I've got H rated tires on my wife's XC. H rated tires on the T5. And, yeah, Y-rated, XL tires on the car that IS capable of 186+ MPH...of course, all of those tires meet the specification that the manufacturer recommended for the car. But you're suggesting that you know more than they do?
Why don't you go read what he has to say first, instead of making up specious hyperbole?
Originally Posted By: Astro14
I would say that your gut is wrong. T rated tires aren't nearly as well built (structure) as H.
Check out Capriracer's site: http://www.barrystiretech.com/ in particular, this section: http://www.barrystiretech.com/speedratings.html
Simply: H is better, a lot better, for most drivers.
Then when someone wishes to put winter tires on their vehicles for winter, a H-rated all-season would be better right? My Q-speed rated snow tires would be inferior in quality to the stock H-rated tires.
Why not go for say, a W-rated or Y-rated tire if you want the best.
or maybe get truck tires, the ones with more plies, they may have a lower speed rating, they their structure is built better than tires made for passenger cars.
It depends how you drive, of course, but you're arguing against the tire engineer (Capriracer).
I've got H rated tires on my wife's XC. H rated tires on the T5. And, yeah, Y-rated, XL tires on the car that IS capable of 186+ MPH...of course, all of those tires meet the specification that the manufacturer recommended for the car. But you're suggesting that you know more than they do?
Why don't you go read what he has to say first, instead of making up specious hyperbole?
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Agree with Doog:
If you don't do heavy hauling and don't drive over 110mph....you are fine.
If you don't do heavy hauling and don't drive over 110mph....you are fine.
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While load rating is important, you also don't want to go with an XL rated tire with a triple digit Load Index unless you really need to haul some extra weight. Case in point, my Forester. I put on V speed rated Nokian WR G2's with XL re-inforced sidewalls and 103 Load Index. Very strong tires, but they're extra stiff and firm in ride quality... probably better for a heavier vehicle than the Forester. OEM tires on the car were a 96H... V-rated XL 103's are way overkill on it and you feel it over every bump.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: Astro14
I would say that your gut is wrong. T rated tires aren't nearly as well built (structure) as H.
Check out Capriracer's site: http://www.barrystiretech.com/ in particular, this section: http://www.barrystiretech.com/speedratings.html
Simply: H is better, a lot better, for most drivers.
Then when someone wishes to put winter tires on their vehicles for winter, a H-rated all-season would be better right? My Q-speed rated snow tires would be inferior in quality to the stock H-rated tires.
Why not go for say, a W-rated or Y-rated tire if you want the best.
or maybe get truck tires, the ones with more plies, they may have a lower speed rating, they their structure is built better than tires made for passenger cars.
It depends how you drive, of course, but you're arguing against the tire engineer (Capriracer).
Why don't you go read what he has to say first, instead of making up specious hyperbole?
It's not exaggeration what I needs. His site centered around generalizations. Higher speed rating is better right? My point still standards, why not go buy a W-speed rated or Y-speed rated tire? Using his generalization, they would be superior tires to H-rated tires.
Then it gets more complicated in winter. Is a H-rated winter tire better than a Q/R/S/T-rated tire? Using his generalization, it indicates as yes. They are better. Then it must mean, my old V-rated Nexens and Hankook winter tires are better than my old Nokian Hakkapelitta RSI's, General Altimax Arctic, etc, as my old V-rated winter tires are constructed better, thus safer for winter conditions.
engineers know they have to optimize compromises. That's the world we live in. So, generalizations such as higher speed rating is always better is nonsense, but sometimes that generalization needs to be made when translated down to laymen's terms. If he said "it depends on a lot of factors", then it just confuses the general population.
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
Originally Posted By: Astro14
I would say that your gut is wrong. T rated tires aren't nearly as well built (structure) as H.
Check out Capriracer's site: http://www.barrystiretech.com/ in particular, this section: http://www.barrystiretech.com/speedratings.html
Simply: H is better, a lot better, for most drivers.
Then when someone wishes to put winter tires on their vehicles for winter, a H-rated all-season would be better right? My Q-speed rated snow tires would be inferior in quality to the stock H-rated tires.
Why not go for say, a W-rated or Y-rated tire if you want the best.
or maybe get truck tires, the ones with more plies, they may have a lower speed rating, they their structure is built better than tires made for passenger cars.
It depends how you drive, of course, but you're arguing against the tire engineer (Capriracer).
Why don't you go read what he has to say first, instead of making up specious hyperbole?
It's not exaggeration what I needs. His site centered around generalizations. Higher speed rating is better right? My point still standards, why not go buy a W-speed rated or Y-speed rated tire? Using his generalization, they would be superior tires to H-rated tires.
Then it gets more complicated in winter. Is a H-rated winter tire better than a Q/R/S/T-rated tire? Using his generalization, it indicates as yes. They are better. Then it must mean, my old V-rated Nexens and Hankook winter tires are better than my old Nokian Hakkapelitta RSI's, General Altimax Arctic, etc, as my old V-rated winter tires are constructed better, thus safer for winter conditions.
engineers know they have to optimize compromises. That's the world we live in. So, generalizations such as higher speed rating is always better is nonsense, but sometimes that generalization needs to be made when translated down to laymen's terms. If he said "it depends on a lot of factors", then it just confuses the general population.
Originally Posted By: UG_Passat
It's not exaggeration what I needs. His site centered around generalizations. Higher speed rating is better right? My point still standards, why not go buy a W-speed rated or Y-speed rated tire? Using his generalization, they would be superior tires to H-rated tires.
Then it gets more complicated in winter. Is a H-rated winter tire better than a Q/R/S/T-rated tire? Using his generalization, it indicates as yes. They are better. Then it must mean, my old V-rated Nexens and Hankook winter tires are better than my old Nokian Hakkapelitta RSI's, General Altimax Arctic, etc, as my old V-rated winter tires are constructed better, thus safer for winter conditions.
engineers know they have to optimize compromises. That's the world we live in. So, generalizations such as higher speed rating is always better is nonsense, but sometimes that generalization needs to be made when translated down to laymen's terms. If he said "it depends on a lot of factors", then it just confuses the general population.
Huh?
It's not exaggeration what I needs. His site centered around generalizations. Higher speed rating is better right? My point still standards, why not go buy a W-speed rated or Y-speed rated tire? Using his generalization, they would be superior tires to H-rated tires.
Then it gets more complicated in winter. Is a H-rated winter tire better than a Q/R/S/T-rated tire? Using his generalization, it indicates as yes. They are better. Then it must mean, my old V-rated Nexens and Hankook winter tires are better than my old Nokian Hakkapelitta RSI's, General Altimax Arctic, etc, as my old V-rated winter tires are constructed better, thus safer for winter conditions.
engineers know they have to optimize compromises. That's the world we live in. So, generalizations such as higher speed rating is always better is nonsense, but sometimes that generalization needs to be made when translated down to laymen's terms. If he said "it depends on a lot of factors", then it just confuses the general population.
Huh?
All the quality T-rated tires I've looked at or bought in recent years have had a cap ply. That's why some people recommend H-rated tires, because they have a cap ply. It seems now, many quality T-rated tires have them, too. I don't, however, know if the Destination LE2 has them.
EDIT - Judging by this comment, I gather the LE 2 does have a cap ply:
Quote:
Spiral Wrap
Encircles the whole tire with a continuous nylon wrap , helping the tire hold its original shape to improve high speed capability.
Hey OP, I wouldn't worry. People here take the speed rating arguments out of proportion in some cases.
But, one other question for the OP: does your door sticker or your manual specify that H-rated replacement tires must be used? My Sonata came with V-rated tires from the factory, which is ridiculous for a car with such bad driving dynamics. But neither the door sticker nor the manual specified that replacement tires needed to be V-rated. I put on Hankook H727 T-rated tires and drove happily for many thousands of miles.
My Cruze came with H-rated tires from the factory and the door sticker includes the H speed rating in the tire specifications.
Side note, some Chevy Cruzes sold in recent years have come with factory S-rated tires.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
IN GENERAL, H-rated tires and above had a cap ply and T-rated and below did not. In my own experience, this has not been the case in about a decade -- most modern T-rated tires also have cap plies. Both of our vehicles are shod with T-rated tires and they have cap plies. In fact, our MDX's T-rated tires are even A-rated for temperature (which is not common for less than H-rated tires).
I think that the general rule that H-rated tires are built better than T-rated tires used to be more applicable than it is today.
This. This guy has it right.
EDIT - Judging by this comment, I gather the LE 2 does have a cap ply:
Quote:
Spiral Wrap
Encircles the whole tire with a continuous nylon wrap , helping the tire hold its original shape to improve high speed capability.
Hey OP, I wouldn't worry. People here take the speed rating arguments out of proportion in some cases.
But, one other question for the OP: does your door sticker or your manual specify that H-rated replacement tires must be used? My Sonata came with V-rated tires from the factory, which is ridiculous for a car with such bad driving dynamics. But neither the door sticker nor the manual specified that replacement tires needed to be V-rated. I put on Hankook H727 T-rated tires and drove happily for many thousands of miles.
My Cruze came with H-rated tires from the factory and the door sticker includes the H speed rating in the tire specifications.
Side note, some Chevy Cruzes sold in recent years have come with factory S-rated tires.
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
IN GENERAL, H-rated tires and above had a cap ply and T-rated and below did not. In my own experience, this has not been the case in about a decade -- most modern T-rated tires also have cap plies. Both of our vehicles are shod with T-rated tires and they have cap plies. In fact, our MDX's T-rated tires are even A-rated for temperature (which is not common for less than H-rated tires).
I think that the general rule that H-rated tires are built better than T-rated tires used to be more applicable than it is today.
This. This guy has it right.
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Huh?
translate into oil discussion. what is the best oil? It depends.
like tires, oil formulation and selection is a compromise.
Huh?
translate into oil discussion. what is the best oil? It depends.
like tires, oil formulation and selection is a compromise.
These were purchased at DT and I'm sure that they will exchange them for me if needed. Is there any insight as to the difference between a SUV/CUV tire and a regular passenger tire and putting a passenger tire on a CUV? I ask this because the most available options in this size appear to be passenger tires.
Are you able to return them? I have a 2012 Rogue and when I replaced mine I considered the LE2s until I saw their weight and how they wear. I went with the RT43's and love them......much quieter than the factory Continentals that came on mine.
Originally Posted By: geekster
These were purchased at DT and I'm sure that they will exchange them for me if needed. Is there any insight as to the difference between a SUV/CUV tire and a regular passenger tire and putting a passenger tire on a CUV? I ask this because the most available options in this size appear to be passenger tires.
It's kind of hard to explain, but tires that fit SUV/CUV's do not fit passenger cars - the sizes are different. Some tire lines are advertised as being for SUV/CUV's - and they probably have small differences compared to otherwise identical tires advertised as being for passenger cars - HOWEVER - these differences are small and not enough to worry about. In other words, this has a lot to do with the marketing department.
Now allow me to address the issue of speed rating:
There is no question that a W, Y, or Z speed rated tire is built more stoutly than an S or T rated tires - all other things being equal. HOWEVER, the other things aren't equal. W, Y, and Z rated tires come in sizes appropriate for vehicles that need those speed ratings.
In this case, we are talking about an SUV/CUV which means the vehicle is taller than a comparable passenger car - BUT - the tire size is appropriate for the vehicle and doesn't appear on any passenger cars! The tire manufacturer knows this - because there are publications which delineate what size comes OE on what vehicles, so appropriate changes can be made - if desired.
Where this really plays itself out is in hotter climates (I kind of think that means Oklahoma?) where an H rated tire is much less likely to fail. Having said that, most tire manufacturers have addressed the issues surrounding the old Ford/Firestone situation some years back. It doesn't mean that tires don't fail - it means that even S and T rated tires fail at a very low rate. Nevertheless, tires with cap plies are less likely to fail than those without - and to assure that one gets tires with cap plies, one needs to get H speed rated tires. (ALL my cars get H speed rated tires, except when they aren't available!)
These were purchased at DT and I'm sure that they will exchange them for me if needed. Is there any insight as to the difference between a SUV/CUV tire and a regular passenger tire and putting a passenger tire on a CUV? I ask this because the most available options in this size appear to be passenger tires.
It's kind of hard to explain, but tires that fit SUV/CUV's do not fit passenger cars - the sizes are different. Some tire lines are advertised as being for SUV/CUV's - and they probably have small differences compared to otherwise identical tires advertised as being for passenger cars - HOWEVER - these differences are small and not enough to worry about. In other words, this has a lot to do with the marketing department.
Now allow me to address the issue of speed rating:
There is no question that a W, Y, or Z speed rated tire is built more stoutly than an S or T rated tires - all other things being equal. HOWEVER, the other things aren't equal. W, Y, and Z rated tires come in sizes appropriate for vehicles that need those speed ratings.
In this case, we are talking about an SUV/CUV which means the vehicle is taller than a comparable passenger car - BUT - the tire size is appropriate for the vehicle and doesn't appear on any passenger cars! The tire manufacturer knows this - because there are publications which delineate what size comes OE on what vehicles, so appropriate changes can be made - if desired.
Where this really plays itself out is in hotter climates (I kind of think that means Oklahoma?) where an H rated tire is much less likely to fail. Having said that, most tire manufacturers have addressed the issues surrounding the old Ford/Firestone situation some years back. It doesn't mean that tires don't fail - it means that even S and T rated tires fail at a very low rate. Nevertheless, tires with cap plies are less likely to fail than those without - and to assure that one gets tires with cap plies, one needs to get H speed rated tires. (ALL my cars get H speed rated tires, except when they aren't available!)
IIRC Tire dealers will not sell you tires that have lower speed ratings than what the manufacturer says are required. If they sold you the T-rated tires that SHOULD mean that DT's resources show it as an acceptable tire type for your vehicle. Has that policy changed in the past couple of years?
The T rated tires should be perfectly fine for your car as long as you are not exceeding that speed rating while driving. I imagine you are not driving more than 110 MPH. And if you are, your tires are going to be one of your last worries, but It would be useful to have the higher speed rating when trying to escape the police who are chasing you for driving over 120 MPH. I had some T rated tires on my my protege for a bit and they were perfectly fine. No problems for 30k miles before I got rid of the tires. They did not have quite as good grip as the more pricey v speed rated tires I usually get, but I also would have spent an extra $30 per tires for the V speed rated tires which were UHP instead of High performance like the T speed tires. I didn't really notice the difference unless I was driving on the twisties.
I guess the conclusion is, no I wouldn't worry for a daily driver.
I guess the conclusion is, no I wouldn't worry for a daily driver.
Originally Posted By: DBMaster
IIRC Tire dealers will not sell you tires that have lower speed ratings than what the manufacturer says are required. If they sold you the T-rated tires that SHOULD mean that DT's resources show it as an acceptable tire type for your vehicle. Has that policy changed in the past couple of years?
Our ES300 will hit 138mph; dealer had no issue selling T-rated Defenders (118mph).
IIRC Tire dealers will not sell you tires that have lower speed ratings than what the manufacturer says are required. If they sold you the T-rated tires that SHOULD mean that DT's resources show it as an acceptable tire type for your vehicle. Has that policy changed in the past couple of years?
Our ES300 will hit 138mph; dealer had no issue selling T-rated Defenders (118mph).
Wow usually it's the tire shop that refuses to mount lower speed ratings! (customers often want cheaper, longer-lasting tires that usually have lower speed ratings)
But if they installed the T's without your knowledge or request, you could have a case against them. The shop should be willing to
Even the cheap Walmart tires in that size are H-rated, and some are even V!
But if they installed the T's without your knowledge or request, you could have a case against them. The shop should be willing to
Even the cheap Walmart tires in that size are H-rated, and some are even V!
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