Sometimes I think upper tier is overrated

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
The disconnect occurs when people think a "high performance" oil on a 3k mile OCI performs better than conventional at that same interval.

+1

 

[Oro_O]

Originally Posted by kschachn
[/quote]
This is often cited here but it is based on a flawed singular paper. Shannow has discussed it in the past but I can't find his comments at the moment.


Which are you saying is "flawed" - the quote by Mad_Hatter or Doublehaul?

I recall the thread a few years ago where Shannow linked the study on oil change and the increased wear immediately after the change (based on tribofilm removal and gap until new one is formed).

 

[Mad_Hatter]

Originally Posted by kschachn
Originally Posted by Mad_Hatter
Originally Posted by Doublehaul
No advantage and evidence points to the fact that changing oil early is actually detrimental

What does that mean? Define early and detrimental..

(say for example my owners manual says change the oil every 3750 miles for severe service despite the fact that the oil is known for being capable of doing 5k miles or more, am I doing "detrimental" things to my engine (by following the manual)?

This is often cited here but it is based on a flawed singular paper. Shannow has discussed it in the past but I can't find his comments at the moment.

That statement had me like, huh?...‚

 

[camryrolla]

You change your oil every 5000km (or 3100 miles). Just use the cheapest conventional oil and filter you can buy. I agree the lowest tier is good enough for your regimen.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by Onetor
Please define upper tier? If it meets the spec, you should be good.



Not according to a lot of members here.

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
There's two major groups on here.

1. Those that want to find the cheapest oil out there that'll meet the bare minimum for their engine's needs and stretch the OCI as long as possible. Usually those in this group will trade their car in before they put 100k miles on it so any oil related concerns are the next guy's problem.

2. Those that want to find the best protecting oil money can buy. They use the site to research what defines these oils. They usually drive their vehicles until the wheels fall off and seek to extend the engine's life as long as possible.

I'm firmly in group 2, but we are the overhwhelming minority.



You ascertain is deeply flawed because the OEM tests with a meeting spec oil and often it's "just API" certified under severe conditions at the maximum recommended OCI interval. Upon teardown the engine is very clean and wear is still within new. Fleet vehicles get whatever bulk is cheapest in the recommended grade and due to insane idle times it's changed at 5K intervals. At 200K miles the engine is still almost new. The frames and bodies are loose but the engine is within single digit margin of meeting factory horsepower and torque figures. The engine is not the reason the vast vehicles end up in the recycling bin. We pay too much attention to motor oil because it one of the few circumstances we can control.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by Or
Which are you saying is "flawed" - the quote by Mad_Hatter or Doublehaul?

I recall the thread a few years ago where Shannow linked the study on oil change and the increased wear immediately after the change (based on tribofilm removal and gap until new one is formed).

Sorry, the study that showed some remaining used oil was beneficial. I apologize I may have misread what the poster was saying and replied about the wrong study.

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by dave1251
Not according to a lot of members here.
Hate to break it to 'em, but they ain't always right !

Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
The disconnect occurs when people think a "high performance" oil on a 3k mile OCI performs better than conventional at that same interval.
Too often, folks have to justify spending extra when it's probably completely unnecessary. Then again, no matter what someone does, uses, and so on, someone will find fault with it. I've learned that from reading enough here.... I purposely do not mention what oil brand, type, viscosity, change interval, and so on that I use just to avoid someone's pettiness !

 

[aquariuscsm]

I think QSUD is $17 per 5 quart jug at Walmart. It's $39.00 at the parts chains!

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted by ARB1977
Not promoting AMSOIL. I know it's not very liked around here. Even at Walmart it can cost over 30.00 when you buy an additional qrt. I pay right around the same maybe a little more for Amsoil XL. The only down fall is anything over 100.00 gets free shipping. On the other hand a case can last me a year if not more.

It's not about liking or disliking anything and you're free to promote it if you wish. It wasn't about the technical aspects of any two motor oils, it was about the price comparison you made which was not accurate. Walmart also has free shipping and if I recall correctly it is at the $25 level and requires no membership fee.

And why are we buying an extra quart for this comparison? Are you also buying an extra quart of Amsoil? You lost me on that one.

 

[Hall]

Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
I think QSUD is $17 per 5 quart jug at Walmart. It's $39.00 at the parts chains!
I've seen similar pricing disparities between WM and auto parts stores. The auto parts stores just don't care though nor do they need to. It does nothing for them if $39 is too high and they sell nothing while everyone buys it at Walmart. Reality is, people pay $39 day in and day out.

Funny story recently was I bought engine oil at Walmart for our son's Accord but he insists on using a Honda filter so I told him to stop at Autozone as they sell them now. He did and the employee asked him "don't you need oil too ?" and our son responded, "nope, I bought it at Walmart 'cause it's a LOT cheaper there" !!

I wouldn't have said that myself but oh well !

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Originally Posted by aquariuscsm
I think QSUD is $17 per 5 quart jug at Walmart. It's $39.00 at the parts chains!
I've seen similar pricing disparities between WM and auto parts stores. The auto parts stores just don't care though nor do they need to. It does nothing for them if $39 is too high and they sell nothing while everyone buys it at Walmart. Reality is, people pay $39 day in and day out.

Funny story recently was I bought engine oil at Walmart for our son's Accord but he insists on using a Honda filter so I told him to stop at Autozone as they sell them now. He did and the employee asked him "don't you need oil too ?" and our son responded, "nope, I bought it at Walmart 'cause it's a LOT cheaper there" !!

I wouldn't have said that myself but oh well !


Haha AWESOME response from your son!

 

[ChrisD46]

1. Keep the oil level on Full
2. Keep the oil clean
3. Keep the oil changed at an appropriate *interval .
4. Use an oil that meets the appropriate specification the vehicle engine requires in the OM

*GDI engines should receive more frequent oil changes than a PFI engine .

 

[CR94]

Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
There's two major groups on here.

1. Those that want to find the cheapest oil out there that'll meet the bare minimum ...

2. Those that want to find the best ...

3. Those that want to find the least expensive oil that is functionally close enough to "the best" to be practically equivalent. In other words, the group more rational than the extremists you describe.

 

[RDY4WAR]

Originally Posted by hallstevenson
Originally Posted by RDY4WAR
1. Those that want to find the cheapest oil out there that'll meet the bare minimum for their engine's needs....
If automaker says "use an oil that meets API SN specs" and brand "x" oil of a suitable viscosity has been approved by API as meeting "SN" specs, it's 100% suitable oil. It's not the "bare minimum". Anything beyond "SN" specs isn't necessary. Plus, who determines anything add'l makes it "better" ?


The OEM recommendations are just as much politics and business as they are engineering which also applies to every other spec on a car. The same goes for API certifications. Limited SAPS? Resource conserving? No thanks. I care more about getting 500k miles out of the engine than I do about getting 0.5% better fuel economy.

 

[aquariuscsm]

I choose my oil based on studying uoas and wear metals (and of course price gets configured in). I also like a lot of moly because moly abundant oils always run extremely smooth and quiet.

 

[RayCJ]

My personal experiences and thought processes...

Many times, I came close to buying an AMG but what stopped me, was it's requirement for an oil with some crazy rating like: MB 299.574-32Q-Subpart9-4041.1 available only on odd months from a single refinery near Stuttgart. Uh, uh! Sorry, not going to happen. Similar thing for high-end oil... 5 cars in the family and I want oil in 5 gallon pails or cases of 5 quart bottles because I do 10 oil changes a year. I like using "proper & adequate" oil and dumping it every 5-6k miles w/o feeling guilty about not stretching each and every polymer chain to the breaking point. The old stuff goes to the County recycling center so I don't feel bad even though I know it could go another 1-2k miles.

If I used fancy/expensive oil, I'd feel like I'm wasting resources (against my up-bringing) because rain or shine, it's going to get dumped in the Spring or Fall.

Ray

 

[RDY4WAR]

Not all fleets use bulk oil, especially government vehicles. Some border patrol vehicles, due to budget restraints, are several years old with hundreds of thousands of miles. They use a PAO based oil from HPL with >800 ppm moly and >1000 ppm P and Zn at 15,000 mile intervals. That includes a lot of idle time.

 

[Loobit]

Enjoying higher RPM like I do, I like me a good oil with more additives, and a filter that can handle 10,000 miles even though I only go 5000 to 7500 miles. Gotta go to Amazon to get my fancy Royal Purple HMX with Synerlec. I just believe the stuff on store shelves doesn'y suit my needs.

It's not that the very good stuff is overrated, but you are just thinking logically that all you need is 1 good everyday oil to stick with at a good price. It works out in the end considering your mileage. Stick to what's been working!

 

[dave1251]

Originally Posted by ChrisD46
1. Keep the oil level on Full
2. Keep the oil clean
3. Keep the oil changed at an appropriate *interval .
4. Use an oil that meets the appropriate specification the vehicle engine requires in the OM

*GDI engines should receive more frequent oil changes than a PFI engine .



Nothing but the sky is falling has justified the last statement. Just follow the OEM recommendation and your engine won't fail due to oil.