MolaKule
Staff member
But the additives are in concentrate form, so a little goes a long way.
Some info on gasoline brands...
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Come on now
If they advertise a gasoline as having Techron or V power in it AND they advertise the benefits of that additive and using their gasoline...it darn better be in that product at levels that matter. They charge extra and should be held accountable if it is not
I find it comical that people blow this off. What other products would you allow this misrepresentation (if in fact it is true) too occur?
I once visited a gasoline "rack" with my friend who worked with a oil distributor. This "rack" in Colton was fed by a huge pipeline. I watched as no name tankers filled up with no additional additives,while "name" brand gasoline received additives corresponding to their company. Now I can only assume (maybe incorrectly), that the correct additives went into the companies tankers in the correct ratios..but it did occur. Maybe they are more responsible here in California?
This, "whats the big deal" attitude sure has me worried about what other things people let slide.I guess truth in advertising,hard work, morals and values don't matter too some. Unreal.
If people are getting ripped off to the tune of billions of dollars, something should/would surface.
[ March 23, 2005, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: tenderloin ]
If they advertise a gasoline as having Techron or V power in it AND they advertise the benefits of that additive and using their gasoline...it darn better be in that product at levels that matter. They charge extra and should be held accountable if it is not
I find it comical that people blow this off. What other products would you allow this misrepresentation (if in fact it is true) too occur?
I once visited a gasoline "rack" with my friend who worked with a oil distributor. This "rack" in Colton was fed by a huge pipeline. I watched as no name tankers filled up with no additional additives,while "name" brand gasoline received additives corresponding to their company. Now I can only assume (maybe incorrectly), that the correct additives went into the companies tankers in the correct ratios..but it did occur. Maybe they are more responsible here in California?
This, "whats the big deal" attitude sure has me worried about what other things people let slide.I guess truth in advertising,hard work, morals and values don't matter too some. Unreal.
If people are getting ripped off to the tune of billions of dollars, something should/would surface.
[ March 23, 2005, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: tenderloin ]
Which gasoline is the best? Someone told me once that Connoco, without a doubt, is the best.
Is this true or was the guy lieing?
Is this true or was the guy lieing?
You've got to be kidding if you have been a consumer any length of time.
Ever get a hamburger that looked like the ads? Ever have a cell phone that worked everywhere they said it would?
Advertising misrepresentation is rampant..I see no reason gasoline should be any different
You may get what you settle for, or settle for what you get...that is your business and your money. I try to get what I pay for. If not, I will find a place/product/service that meets my criterion.
IMO these reports about how gasoline are nothing more than lazy and or unethical people.
[ March 23, 2005, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: tenderloin ]
IMO these reports about how gasoline are nothing more than lazy and or unethical people.
[ March 23, 2005, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: tenderloin ]
I do not recall any gasoline ads or commercials that represent anything very much specific. Maybe the only one being v-tech Shell having 5 times the minimum required detergents.
Gasoline marketers sell sizzle, and very little steak.
Now if you try to peddle 87 octane as 93, that's real and measurable. The rest? How do you measure "smoother, more reponsive power"?
For example, here in New England we have commercials for Valero (spelling?) gasoline, sold in the Boston area. The whole commercial consists of "off the street" common everyday people making car acceleration sounds (vrooooom, vroooooom).
Gasoline marketers sell sizzle, and very little steak.
Now if you try to peddle 87 octane as 93, that's real and measurable. The rest? How do you measure "smoother, more reponsive power"?
For example, here in New England we have commercials for Valero (spelling?) gasoline, sold in the Boston area. The whole commercial consists of "off the street" common everyday people making car acceleration sounds (vrooooom, vroooooom).
"Maybe the only one being v-tech Shell having 5 times the minimum required detergents".
Shell was one of two examples I used (the other being Chevron with Techron). They make specific claims. If V Power does not have 5 times the detergents as advertised, that is not a big deal? If V Power or Chevron with Techron do not perform or clean as advertised, it is no big deal? Chevron, Shell and others make claims for their gasoline. The should meet those claims. That is all I am saying.
web page http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/techrongas/
[ May 21, 2005, 08:51 AM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]
Shell was one of two examples I used (the other being Chevron with Techron). They make specific claims. If V Power does not have 5 times the detergents as advertised, that is not a big deal? If V Power or Chevron with Techron do not perform or clean as advertised, it is no big deal? Chevron, Shell and others make claims for their gasoline. The should meet those claims. That is all I am saying.
web page http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/techrongas/
[ May 21, 2005, 08:51 AM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]
I think where specific claims are made, they are met. But the additives are not added before the pipeline....they are added at the terminal as the gasoline is going into the tank wagon.
Way back 35 or more years ago, there were very few government regulations as to what went into gasoline, no posting of octane on pumps, etc. I used to work at an Esso (later Exxon) refinery, and could tell you stories that would make your hair stand on end.
Today, however, engines and their fuel systems are far more sophisticated than back then. Moreover, in many areas there are EPA or other government environmental agencies that have promulgated regulations comprehensively defining gasoline specifications on a regional basis, everything from vapor pressure to oxygen content.
There just isn't that much room any more for gasolines to be very much different. I guess alcohol versus MTBE is one area, but then some places have banned MTBE. Oxygenated vs non-oygenated is another.
Other than the additive packages, oxy vs non-oxy, and octane levels, I consider, within a geographic market, gasoline to be pretty much generic in this day and age.
Way back 35 or more years ago, there were very few government regulations as to what went into gasoline, no posting of octane on pumps, etc. I used to work at an Esso (later Exxon) refinery, and could tell you stories that would make your hair stand on end.
Today, however, engines and their fuel systems are far more sophisticated than back then. Moreover, in many areas there are EPA or other government environmental agencies that have promulgated regulations comprehensively defining gasoline specifications on a regional basis, everything from vapor pressure to oxygen content.
There just isn't that much room any more for gasolines to be very much different. I guess alcohol versus MTBE is one area, but then some places have banned MTBE. Oxygenated vs non-oygenated is another.
Other than the additive packages, oxy vs non-oxy, and octane levels, I consider, within a geographic market, gasoline to be pretty much generic in this day and age.
So is it true when people say that ARCO gas has a higher sulfur content?
Begining with 2004 and continuing on thru 2005 & 2006, the EPA is reducing sulfur levels in gasoline. Many refineries have added upgrades in the last couple of years to reduce sulfur levels from over 300 ppm to the new 30 ppm cap.
Read about the BP Arco Cherry Point Refinery here.
Read about the BP Arco Cherry Point Refinery here.
Chevron got sued a few years ago since they were advertising that their 93-grade keeps your engine cleaner. They had to stop advertising that because the techron dose level was the same across all grades. Now all they do is put "Techron" is larger letters on the pump labels for high-grade.
Wow. Very informative! Makes me think I should use 7-11 gas and FP.
While it's true that an additive in "five times" the required amount can be measured, the actual effectiveness of that additive will likely remain in question.
Look at how the advertisements of such additized gasolines are worded. You hear "up to 25 percent better..." (emphasis on "up to"). You'll hear "can help your engine..." (emphasis on "can"). And so on.
So it would seem to me that if an additive which actually worked was put into a branded gasoline in a high enough concentration to actually matter--the sellers of such would stop the Clinton-speak and just say "this WILL do such and such..."
But they don't do that, do they?
Dan
Look at how the advertisements of such additized gasolines are worded. You hear "up to 25 percent better..." (emphasis on "up to"). You'll hear "can help your engine..." (emphasis on "can"). And so on.
So it would seem to me that if an additive which actually worked was put into a branded gasoline in a high enough concentration to actually matter--the sellers of such would stop the Clinton-speak and just say "this WILL do such and such..."
But they don't do that, do they?
Dan
I believe they do. Where you deliver there seems to be unscrupulous POS "businessmen"..You want to play the "everybody is a dirtbag" game, well so be. If all business was run like you claim your area operates....heaven help us. UNREAL!
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/techrongas/
made clicky for easy viewing
[ May 21, 2005, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]
http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/techrongas/
made clicky for easy viewing
[ May 21, 2005, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]
Where I live there's no price difference between the no name stations and say BP, so common sense says use the name brand gas. Right now the Speedway, Citgo, BP and Shell are all $2.17 for 87.
I hope to remain on Dan the Fuel Tanker Man's good side, but can't resist this mischief:
And that would become Bush-speak, then, making over-blown (haha: blown, get it?) proclamations which can be denied later? (Like Amoco got slapped on the wrist for. It's impossible not to be cynical about big oil.)
I know an engineer at VP Fuels. Mentioned to him I'm taking my truck on a long trip to the U.S. and want to bump up the timing so what kind of additive can I get from VP or recommend me something from KLOTZ to help with detonation.
Told me they run vehicles on a chassis dynamometer and tested every N.American brand of fuel. Only 3 fuels stood out making the most "clean" power. They on-purpose make engine detonate by; i]lugging and accelerating at low rpms, ii]messing with timing or iii]superheat the intake air charge.
Said when I travel in the U.S. to go for in this order...They have some kind of additive that "acts" like a propylene oxide.
1] Sunoco markets Ultra® 94
2] Chevron Supreme
3] Shell Gold 93 (premium).
....if can't find any then get Esso/Exxon supreme.
Before I left Canada, under the hood at the distributor, I measured the distance from the vacuum advance pod to the firewall. Using the Canadian Shell Gold I found the spot where the engine would ping then back off the timing slightly.
Once out of Canada and cross over the border using the recommended fuels, I could jump under the hood, pull the distributor to advance the timing even more. I would rotate the distributor and drive for a while when around 50 mph I would slowly roll on the gas pedal like im going to pass someone and listen for "pinging" Kept doing this until the engine started knocking at that speed. WOW, man using the Sunoco or Chevron really perked the engine up.
Upon the return home I bought two 5 gal jerry cans and filled them up with Sunoco so when I got deep back into Canada I would use that fuel in the hills. Arriving back in S.St Marie I was near empty and went to the first Canadian Shell gas station to fill up with supreme. Guess what, not even out of the city my engine is PINGING already.
Stop, get underhood and put timing back to original measurement. Drive on and no pinging. 5 hours later up in the hills in my area I had to stop and fuel up so I added the U.S fuel. All I gotta say is WOW man, holy shiznit the US fuel kicks arse. Our Canuck fuel is JUNK and they must be cutting it with Kerosene or WATER because I got back under the hood and went to the timing measurement that ran good with that fuel.
My 330hp/350 is running @ 10:1 compression and pings like a bstard if I don't watch the timing so I could see the difference as if I was watching it on TV.
In Canada, we're getting ripped off!!!!! I wish there was a smiley that "flips the bird" salute for our Canadian fuel suppliers
Told me they run vehicles on a chassis dynamometer and tested every N.American brand of fuel. Only 3 fuels stood out making the most "clean" power. They on-purpose make engine detonate by; i]lugging and accelerating at low rpms, ii]messing with timing or iii]superheat the intake air charge.
Said when I travel in the U.S. to go for in this order...They have some kind of additive that "acts" like a propylene oxide.
1] Sunoco markets Ultra® 94
2] Chevron Supreme
3] Shell Gold 93 (premium).
....if can't find any then get Esso/Exxon supreme.
Before I left Canada, under the hood at the distributor, I measured the distance from the vacuum advance pod to the firewall. Using the Canadian Shell Gold I found the spot where the engine would ping then back off the timing slightly.
Once out of Canada and cross over the border using the recommended fuels, I could jump under the hood, pull the distributor to advance the timing even more. I would rotate the distributor and drive for a while when around 50 mph I would slowly roll on the gas pedal like im going to pass someone and listen for "pinging" Kept doing this until the engine started knocking at that speed. WOW, man using the Sunoco or Chevron really perked the engine up.
Upon the return home I bought two 5 gal jerry cans and filled them up with Sunoco so when I got deep back into Canada I would use that fuel in the hills. Arriving back in S.St Marie I was near empty and went to the first Canadian Shell gas station to fill up with supreme. Guess what, not even out of the city my engine is PINGING already.
Stop, get underhood and put timing back to original measurement. Drive on and no pinging. 5 hours later up in the hills in my area I had to stop and fuel up so I added the U.S fuel. All I gotta say is WOW man, holy shiznit the US fuel kicks arse. Our Canuck fuel is JUNK and they must be cutting it with Kerosene or WATER because I got back under the hood and went to the timing measurement that ran good with that fuel.
My 330hp/350 is running @ 10:1 compression and pings like a bstard if I don't watch the timing so I could see the difference as if I was watching it on TV.
In Canada, we're getting ripped off!!!!! I wish there was a smiley that "flips the bird" salute for our Canadian fuel suppliers
So I am not just dreaming that Chevron seems to make a difference in my car! I can't easily get Sunoco. Chevron has been my choice in gasolines whenever I can get it. When I am traveling I try to find a Chevron gas station.
I am not as impressed with the Chevron Techron fuel detergent you can buy. Gummout Regaine seems to make a bigger difference in how car runs.
I am not as impressed with the Chevron Techron fuel detergent you can buy. Gummout Regaine seems to make a bigger difference in how car runs.
I remember when Sunoco got nailed for false advertising, I think by the FTC, for the same thing with their "HiTech" additive.
Anyone hear the new BP/Amoco ads? Better performance, cleaner for the enviroment, over time cleans up deposits blah blah blah. In cars that benefit from using premium of course
So why isn't their 93 listed Top Tier yet? hmmmmmmmmm.
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