It seems that SM didn't live very long. What if it never happened and the SL standard was held on to until what is now the SN standard? (yes I know SN would have then been called SM) Would we have lost out on all that much? Is the whole ZDDP thing and cats overblown?
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So what if SM never happened?
- Thread starter sangyup81
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SM lasted a lot longer than SL did.
Originally Posted By: sangyup81
Is the whole ZDDP thing and cats overblown?
What do you mean?
Is the whole ZDDP thing and cats overblown?
What do you mean?
Way I heard it is that in theory the phosphorus in zddp could destroy cats. But in application, unless the vehicle was consuming a lot of oil, it probably would not happen. However, the EPA is supposed to have required manufacturers to warranty cats out to 150,000 miles, so the manufacturers were not taking any chances. Replacing a lot of cats down the road could be financially devastating, so they went overkill. Well that's the story of overblown zddp thing as I have heard it. Correct me if I am wrong. I expect that I am at least inaccurate but the big picture is there.
A lot of manufacturers, GM the prime example but Hyundai as well, extended their powertrain warranties out to 100,000 miles around or after the adoption of SM. On a "I own two cars" perspective the ZDDP thing might seem overblown. On a "I warranty 47 million O2 sensors at 100 bucks a pop" perspective the move to SM might be a big part of making those extended warranties financially possible for automakers.
Other than that, agreed not much.
Other than that, agreed not much.
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o2 sensors are not covered by powertrain.
They are covered by the 8/80000 Federal Emissions warrenty.
Originally Posted By: millerbl00
They are covered by the 8/80000 Federal Emissions warrenty.
No they are not. I'm looking at my warranty manual right now. 8/80 gives you catalyst and ecm coverage. o2 sensors are basic warranty.
They are covered by the 8/80000 Federal Emissions warrenty.
No they are not. I'm looking at my warranty manual right now. 8/80 gives you catalyst and ecm coverage. o2 sensors are basic warranty.
Mmm. covered in mine.
Originally Posted By: millerbl00
Mmm. covered in mine.
They replaced just an o2 sensor under 8/80?
Mmm. covered in mine.
They replaced just an o2 sensor under 8/80?
No mine is fine. this is part of what my book says:
EMISSION CONTROL PARTS
Exhaust Gas Conversion Systems
oxygen sensor thermal reactor
catalytic converter dual-walled exhaust pipe
EMISSION CONTROL PARTS
Exhaust Gas Conversion Systems
oxygen sensor thermal reactor
catalytic converter dual-walled exhaust pipe
what kind of vehicle is that?
HHR
Originally Posted By: millerbl00
HHR
I don't know what you are looking at. I'm in my GM warranty manual, and Oxygen sensors are NOT covered under Federal Emissions warranty. Components that are Federal Emissions are:
ABS Control Module **
Engine Control Module (ECM) **
Fuel Control Module **
Powertrain Control Module (PCM) **
Vehicle Control Module (VCM) **
Transmission Control Module **
Catalytic Converter(s) and Muffler if attached as assembly * **
Exhaust Manifold with Catalytic Converter attached as assembly
And that is it for Gasoline and Diesel vehicles. I even called my GM Warranty hotline to confirm that oxygen sensors are not covered.
HHR
I don't know what you are looking at. I'm in my GM warranty manual, and Oxygen sensors are NOT covered under Federal Emissions warranty. Components that are Federal Emissions are:
ABS Control Module **
Engine Control Module (ECM) **
Fuel Control Module **
Powertrain Control Module (PCM) **
Vehicle Control Module (VCM) **
Transmission Control Module **
Catalytic Converter(s) and Muffler if attached as assembly * **
Exhaust Manifold with Catalytic Converter attached as assembly
And that is it for Gasoline and Diesel vehicles. I even called my GM Warranty hotline to confirm that oxygen sensors are not covered.
My mistake, I looked again and they are only covered for 3/36.
With almost 4 pages of parts being listed it is confusing. I would still fight them on a claim.
With almost 4 pages of parts being listed it is confusing. I would still fight them on a claim.
Part of me wishes that Nebraska mandated smog testing.. I could have recorded how the catalyst was performing over some time in my Saturn.
If there ever was a car I've owned that had the ability to poison the converters with ZDDP from consumption, that would be the one!!
FWIW I sold it with over 200k, burning a quart every tank and the catalyst was still functioning enough to keep the computer happy.
If there ever was a car I've owned that had the ability to poison the converters with ZDDP from consumption, that would be the one!!
FWIW I sold it with over 200k, burning a quart every tank and the catalyst was still functioning enough to keep the computer happy.
Unless the person is in an area where emissions testing is required, it doesn't matter if the cat is ruined, so long as it doesn't plug up. Here in the Detroit area few care so long as the car keeps running.
Originally Posted By: millerbl00
My mistake, I looked again and they are only covered for 3/36.
With almost 4 pages of parts being listed it is confusing. I would still fight them on a claim.
I agree, I read through it a couple of times to make sure I wasn't reading it wrong, but I was starting to question if I had been "wrong" for the last 16 years of my dealership career lol
My mistake, I looked again and they are only covered for 3/36.
With almost 4 pages of parts being listed it is confusing. I would still fight them on a claim.
I agree, I read through it a couple of times to make sure I wasn't reading it wrong, but I was starting to question if I had been "wrong" for the last 16 years of my dealership career lol
The ZDDP issue would not have any effect on the 02 sensor anyway. It has to do with ruining the precious metal inside the converter itself. It would only be an issue on a vehicle using oil big time as well. On a normal healthy engine that does not consume excessive oil it is an overblown issue.
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