Smitty’s supply burns down

[Foxtrot08]

Question, since we've got warehouses with huge amounts flammable material but not hydrocarbons.... are there not some SERIOUS sprinkler systems required for gas/oil facilities like this? Our largest plant is about 950,000 square feet, and only about 450k of that is warehousing, but that plant has 40-some-odd fire pump stations positioned outside the building capable of about 55,000 gallons per minute total if all were activated. Obviously, the system is zoned and there are more sprinkler nozzles per SF where the flammables are stored. Seems like there should have been some way to at least prevent a total loss? Even when fires have gotten to the inside surfaces of our roofs, which are coated with dust, oil, paint and other flammable liquids, any conflagrations are usually kept to less than a few thousand square feet, max.

With hydrocarbons, you make floating fire.

Case study is the Chemtool fire - I’ve heard numbers thrown around as much as 33 million gallons of water was thrown at that fire.

One the auto ignition temperature is achieved, the moment that oil hits air, it’s going to combust. This is going to back feed throughout all the piping into the piping. This will ignite through the vents on top of the tanks.

It will eventually cause an explosion as a fuel air bomb of sorts.

All while any product on the ground - cases of quarts, bag in a box, puddles of products in water - will eventually ignite. On top of that, you’re going to have a steam issue. The amount of heat generated by the lubrication oil on fire would cause enormous amounts of steam.

Beyond that, now you have a gigantic amount of hazardous water to deal with. In both Chemtool and this case, it ends up in the local water way.


The only real way to fight the fire is to remove the fuel. This is how refinery fires are fought. Containment with water to cool important areas. Remove the fuel. Same principle of what happens on off shore rigs. Remember the deep water horizon burned for days until the Q4000 could drill a relief well. And they had the ocean to pour on it. They let it burn until the rig collapsed on itself from the heat.

I’m assuming the fire valves in this case, failed due to the amount of heat generated by the fire. As API 607 is only rated for 1400 degrees to 30 mins.


Now could a sprinkler system stopped a motor fire, or something small? Absolutely.

If it was a lightning strike that ignited a tank to begin with… well, that’s an entirely different story.

In Chemtool’s case, it was a broken high pressure heat transfer fluid line. It hit air at over 600f. Instantly ignited and formed a blow torch. Which, ignited everything around it. The sprinkler system kicked on, but you already had a grease fire. Now you have a floating grease fire.


Water just isn’t a good solution. Fire fighting foam works, but is incredibly toxic. And expensive.

There isn’t a real good answer.

Personally, I would say in close tanks. Practice safety. And if something does happen… just let it burn.

 

[daves87rs]

That is bad, weh.
Really curious to see what happened to start it.
I hate to say it, but I will, be ready for big price increases…

People can barely afford their oil changes now…….

 

[4WD]

With hydrocarbons, you make floating fire.

Case study is the Chemtool fire - I’ve heard numbers thrown around as much as 33 million gallons of water was thrown at that fire.

One the auto ignition temperature is achieved, the moment that oil hits air, it’s going to combust. This is going to back feed throughout all the piping into the piping. This will ignite through the vents on top of the tanks.

It will eventually cause an explosion as a fuel air bomb of sorts.

All while any product on the ground - cases of quarts, bag in a box, puddles of products in water - will eventually ignite. On top of that, you’re going to have a steam issue. The amount of heat generated by the lubrication oil on fire would cause enormous amounts of steam.

Beyond that, now you have a gigantic amount of hazardous water to deal with. In both Chemtool and this case, it ends up in the local water way.


The only real way to fight the fire is to remove the fuel. This is how refinery fires are fought. Containment with water to cool important areas. Remove the fuel. Same principle of what happens on off shore rigs. Remember the deep water horizon burned for days until the Q4000 could drill a relief well. And they had the ocean to pour on it. They let it burn until the rig collapsed on itself from the heat.

I’m assuming the fire valves in this case, failed due to the amount of heat generated by the fire. As API 607 is only rated for 1400 degrees to 30 mins.


Now could a sprinkler system stopped a motor fire, or something small? Absolutely.

If it was a lightning strike that ignited a tank to begin with… well, that’s an entirely different story.

In Chemtool’s case, it was a broken high pressure heat transfer fluid line. It hit air at over 600f. Instantly ignited and formed a blow torch. Which, ignited everything around it. The sprinkler system kicked on, but you already had a grease fire. Now you have a floating grease fire.


Water just isn’t a good solution. Fire fighting foam works, but is incredibly toxic. And expensive.

There isn’t a real good answer.

Personally, I would say in close tanks. Practice safety. And if something does happen… just let it burn.

Q4000 is an intervention vessel - 2 of Transocean’s Development Driller series drilled relief wells …
Multiple vessels pumped water on DWH with poor results …

 

[Foxtrot08]

Q4000 is an intervention vessel - 2 of Transocean’s Development Driller series drilled relief wells …
Multiple vessels pumped water on DWH with poor results …

The Q4000 is the one that did the static kill on the well.

Of course there were several other vessels involved in the operation, which supported it. I was just keeping that post short, as an example of where water won’t suppress fan oil fire.

 

[CDX825]

Wasn't Smittys the one supplying the oil for tractor supply most recently?

 

[Chris142]

Wonder if Warren will take up the slack.

 

[SC Maintenance]

I took a hazmat type course years ago. One day was putting out fires. We went to put out real fires, at a place firefighters train. They put I believe kerosene in this contained circle maybe 15 feet diameter and you had to put it out with dry fire extinguishers. The only way to put it out was push the fire forward and deprive it of air. If you lost contain at all the stuff you already put out re-lit immediately. I was not very good at it.

No way water does much of anything to something like this - probably more to keep the population satisfied that their "doing something".

 

[4WD]

I took a hazmat type course years ago. One day was putting out fires. We went to put out real fires, at a place firefighters train. They put I believe kerosene in this contained circle maybe 15 feet diameter and you had to put it out with dry fire extinguishers. The only way to put it out was push the fire forward and deprive it of air. If you lost contain at all the stuff you already put out re-lit immediately. I was not very good at it.

No way water does much of anything to something like this - probably more to keep the population satisfied that their "doing something".

Did similar training where 4 teams pushed the floating fire forward with water - and that allowed 2 other teams to hit the source with large dry chemical units … However, this is first response before it is out of hand …

 

[Kira]

No way water does much of anything to something like this

I believe water is used to cool areas which haven't caught fire yet.
A fireman mentioned that whilst describing the benefits of sprinkler systems.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Did similar training where 4 teams pushed the floating fire forward with water - and that allowed 2 other teams to hit the source with large dry chemical units … However, this is first response before it is out of hand …

Yes.

My point was there aren't any good ways to put it out, it pretty much has to burn out. Starving it of oxygen is the only realistic way which is about impossible for a large fire. As you mentioned, they couldn't put Horizon out when surrounded by an ocean.

 

[Overfill]

Wasn't Smittys the one supplying the oil for tractor supply most recently?

I want to say they blend up Traveller brand lubes