small size (Ea09) filters clogging prematurely

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Donald

Donald

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I have what appears to be a problem with a clogged Ea09 filter. It caused the oil pressure light to flicker and/or come on. Some real odd oil pressure readings (mechanical gauge) at startup on cold days. This was with 5500 miles on the filter. Problems went away when I changed just the filter to a Bosch.

Now the Ea09 is a tiny filter and its possible that the Amsoil ASL oil was cleaning sludge in the engine and clogging the filter.

Maybe small Ea filters can only go extended if the engine is pretty clean already.

Amsoil has the filter in question and said it was dirty but not clogged nor defective.
 
Application? Mileage?

This cannot occur without the presence of some mechanical anomaly. It has a bypass valve just like any other filter. If this threshold cannot be met without decreasing flow ..then there is some serious internal pump leakage ...or your relief spring is shot.

This is the only way that any filter ..by any manufacturer, can be "better flowing". It's the only way that the filter can impact flow to any degree.
 
Giving more thought to this, I do recall my 1979 Peugeot 504 diesel ..that when I poured some "magic mechanic in a can" type stuff ..caused the oil light to come on. It, obviously since I put 100k more on the engine, didn't reduce the oil flow. The next year's model then came with a "filter clogged" or "change filter" light as well as a "low oil pressure" light (or gauge - I don't recall).

I don't know how this was setup in the engine ...so I can't figure out how this occurs. The only way that this reasons in my mind is when a filter is a bypass filter. Then the reduced flow will cause a reduced pressure. Otherwise, the pressure should fall into a variable within the bypass valve setting ..an elevation up to the relief limit ..where is can then be a reduction below that level.
dunno.gif
 
the car is a 94 Camry with 164K miles. This oil and filter had 5500 miles.

I to do not know what is wrong with the filter. But as I said, Amsoil has the filter and has evaluated it and said not clogged and not defective.

I agree, the bypass should have opened up and the oil pressure light should have never come on. But it appears not to have.
 
UnDummy - I had first thought it might be an engine issue, however I cannot think of an engine issue that would go away when I unscrew a Ea filter and screw in a Bosch filter.

I am still working with Amsoil on this issue. I'd really like the conclusion to be that this was a defective filter.
 
A weak relief spring would react in this manner as would worn pump vanes/gears. This is when ..and only when ..a filter can be either "free flowing" or "restrictive". If you're not in relief (or having massive internal leakage), then you can't have a "low flow". You can only have "the flow".
 
I guess I could see how oil pump and/or a weak relief spring might cause this problem. But my guess is that oil pump and relief spring problems are few and far between.

If the somewhat restricted oil filter was to cause an existing problem with the oil pump or relief spring show up I would have expected it to show up when I first started the engine in the morning as it was very cold (close to 0F) rather than show up 30 minutes later when the engine was fully warmed up.
 
If the oil pressure light is flickering once the oil is fully warmed up and thinned out, it may mean you have marginal oil pressure w/ the SAE 5w-30. This could be due to a worn out oil pump and/or partially clogged oil pickup screen, down in the oil pan.

In other words, this sounds more like an oil circulation issue and not an oil filter issue....A situation of marginal oil pressure would also be consistent with the levels of bearing wear in your past two analyses, which I'd consider to be mildly elevated.

If the oil filter were partially clogged it would simply go into bypass mode as it does on a cold start and you should still get adequate oil pressure after a couple of seconds.

TD
 
Quote:

If the oil pressure light is flickering once the oil is fully warmed up and thinned out, it may mean you have marginal oil pressure w/ the SAE 5w-30.
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This could be due to a worn out oil pump and/or partially clogged oil pickup screen, and or a worn/clogged pressure relief valve down in the oil pan. Take your pick at this point , 1/3 , 2/3 , 3/3 .
dunno.gif


In other words, this sounds more like an oil circulation issue
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and not an oil filter issue....A situation of marginal oil pressure would also be consistent with the levels of bearing wear in your past two analyses, which I'd consider to be mildly elevated.

If the oil filter were partially clogged it would simply go into bypass mode as it does on a cold start and you should still get adequate oil pressure after a couple of seconds.

TD

Click to expand...

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Esp on a by design low output @ idle oil pump with 165k with long interval oil maintenance .
The filter was doing its job - most likely .
When all the information is considered you got it .
Would be nice to know what strange oil pressure readings were observed cold - buts its probably time to check "hot" anyway and depending on that it maybe time to drop the pan - and get a pump assembly inspection and or replacement .
Maybe Auto-Rx could help here .
 
OK, here are the odd readings at a cold start on a cold northeast morning:

start engine, pressure 15lbs, does not vary with RPM. Turn engine off then on and pressure is 20 and goes to 50 at 3000 RPM. I initially turned the engine off to recheck that the gauge really did start at 0 lbs. It did so I restarted the engine.

Repeat above test on 3 different cold start mornings, same result, used 2 different mechanical gauges.

Replace only filter, cold start engine, pressure 25 maybe 30 and varies with RPM. No more constant 15lbs until engine is restarted.

I cannot conclude what is causing the odd pressure, but it did change significantly when filter was replaced.
 
Thanks for the added data, Donald. I didn't see any report of HLA noise or other conditions that would normally accompany true low oil pressure ..but that doesn't eliminate low oil flow (recall my Peugeot reference).

Hmm (imagine thought cloud here) ..30 lbs isn't a very high ceiling in cold start pressure. Have you any observations with heavier weight oils? This would be, what I consider, a rather low cold start pressure.

I would see what the FSM (factory service manual) suggests for your oil pressure norms. I suspect that you've got lower than normal oil pressure/output from your pump ..which could be from any number of possible reasons (as were mentioned).

Your readings make sense. Follow me here. Let's say that the bypass valve limit (this will be the limit of pressure reduction and PSID) will be around 15psi. You start ..filter/galleries empty. 15 psi indicated. You swap the filter ...and you see 30 psi in the same event.

Quote:

But my guess is that oil pump and relief spring problems are few and far between.

Click to expand...


So are situations where a filter can effect indicated oil pressure. It's almost unheard of
dunno.gif


I think you should try Auto-Rx to see if you've got a varnished relief mechanism or clogged pickup.
 
Donald that helps to know .


Super short version - if that were mine I would waste no time in getting hot oil pressure readings .

When hot , its possible that you are experiencing pressure above the light on threshold but below what you really want .
OVERSIMPLIFIED but perhaps useful here - when hot , a malfunctioning oil pump "system"/ pressure relief valve can in a sense , act like an "variable value" intermittant oil filter bypass valve - such as when an excellent filter gets dirty and develops an acceptable and normal resistence to flow .
In otherwords , in certain situations the oil pump pressure relief valve is opening/maintaining a pressure too low "to push thru" the filter or the filter bypass valve - but high enough to get thru a loose clean filter - and stay above your light on pressure .
What this means is that in certain situations you maybe operating between light on pressure and bypass opening pressure when you want more .
Oil filter bypass valve operation assumes a properly operating oil pump and oil pump pressure relief valve .....
 
Quote:

if that were mine I would waste no time in getting hot oil pressure readings .

Click to expand...


Yes! g20ooh gives good advice. There's the likelihood that you've got a very delicate balance between oil light threshold and the viscosity of the fluid. That is, the variable flow produces enough pressure when cold due to viscosity ..and enough when hot due to being easier to pump (in spite of leakage).

This is, currently, a supply problem/anomaly.
 
That, on the surface, appears like decent warm/hot pressure. What is it cold with that filter on it?

If you have the time, please fill in the blanks here

Cold start
Cold peak while driving
Peak observed pressure before warmup

Hot idle
Hot peak (you've already mentioned this)

..and any transitional observations in between or within those two conditions.
 
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