What do you mean by sudden valve troubles?
SM oils and reduced EP
- Thread starter Cujet
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What do you mean by sudden valve troubles?
My oil of choice lately has been Schaeffer 5W30 7000 series blend. It seems to be working great for me in two of my cars. Does anyone here know for certain that they changed the formulation in order to meet SM requirements?
Aren't those still rated "SL"?
I take that to mean you don't know of any, either?
Mobil 1 0W-40; API SM but not ILSAC GF-4. One example is all you get from me Ray!
My bad. I should of said "state of the art" race engine builders. Back yard tinkerers, different story.
http://www.aa1car.com/library/2003/eb40354.htm
http://www.jepistons.com/dept/new/products/p-coatings/p-coatings.shtml
http://www.rosspistons.com/auto_custom_pistons_detail.php?cat=64&item=4
http://www.cppistons.com/products/custom_pistons/
http://www.cosworth.com/content.php?pageid=85&contentid=48
http://www.mahle.com/C125705E004FDAF9/CurrentBaseLink/W26LKMV8867STULEN
http://www.techworkseng.com/Products/Subaru_Forged_Pistons.htm
http://www.swaintech.com/store.asp?pid=10539&catid=19694
http://www.cryoeng.com/documents/EngineDurabilitySecrets.htm
Many OEMs have been using coatings like tin on piston skirts for over 30 years. The past decade, most have switched over to graphite moly-disulfide coatings.
In any event, ZDDP does not help with aluminum piston skirts.
http://www.lightsource.ca/brochures/pdf/bancroft_final.pdf
http://www.apmaths.uwo.ca/~mmuser/Papers/TL05.pdf
Well, you luck out here. HDEOs will probably a good match for these engines.
No, it means you should do you're own research. Unless of course, you want to pay me as a consultant.
Both PCMO and HDEOs still have additives, just the type and quantity is changing depending on the certifications desired.
Maybe it's the brand of oil you're using.
The used oil analysis sections is one place to look. Look for equipment similar to yours. If you have something really expensive you want to protect, hire a consultant like Terry.
In some cases, yes.
GF-4 is the fuel efficiency spec. German Castrol doesn't meet it either (I think). In order to meet the GF-4 spec, your 30wt viscosities will be on the low end of the scale and I assume this is why Amsoil ASL/ATM/TSO are now low 30wt oils. As an OEM fill, this is why M1 was always towards the low end.
It's interesting to know that ZDDP doesn't help with Al piston skirts. I've had a few people tell me they think Redline is a bit outdated in their formulation approach for modern engines due to the high levels of ZDDP. I'm waiting for a response from Dave as to why they don't make their street oils more API compliant. Reasong being, we have seen modern SM oils perform extremely well in all conditions that the need for high levels of ZDDP don't benefit the majority of engines out there now. Am I correct on this?
I would guess that a lot of the racing crowds, using older technology as 427 stated, still will need the extra ZDDP. However, 99% of us don't anymore. Other additives seem to be doing an outstanding job, like Boron for instance. People that buy RL for the ZDDP levels and POE base might never see the benefit simply bc the engine design doesn't all for an oil formulated that way.
People have knocked the API on this site, but IMO, it has improved the quality of oil to meet the demands of today's modern engines. It's forced oil companies to look for alternatives to ZDDP. As TeeDub said, if Amsoil felt these newer additives didn't do the job, they probably wouldn't use them.
It's interesting to know that ZDDP doesn't help with Al piston skirts. I've had a few people tell me they think Redline is a bit outdated in their formulation approach for modern engines due to the high levels of ZDDP. I'm waiting for a response from Dave as to why they don't make their street oils more API compliant. Reasong being, we have seen modern SM oils perform extremely well in all conditions that the need for high levels of ZDDP don't benefit the majority of engines out there now. Am I correct on this?
I would guess that a lot of the racing crowds, using older technology as 427 stated, still will need the extra ZDDP. However, 99% of us don't anymore. Other additives seem to be doing an outstanding job, like Boron for instance. People that buy RL for the ZDDP levels and POE base might never see the benefit simply bc the engine design doesn't all for an oil formulated that way.
People have knocked the API on this site, but IMO, it has improved the quality of oil to meet the demands of today's modern engines. It's forced oil companies to look for alternatives to ZDDP. As TeeDub said, if Amsoil felt these newer additives didn't do the job, they probably wouldn't use them.
Yes.
Yes.
Just like GC is great for rollerized valvetrain, crank triggered electronic ignition, crank driven g-rotor oil pump, LS-Xs - RedLine is a better choice for Gen I SBC with flat tappets, cam gear driven distributor, driving oil pump gears.
buster Don't just look at Redline ZDDP. It has a lot more add's than just ZDDP. It's loaded with everything.
dave, I agree. I was just trying to make a point that while Redline is a top notch racing oil, most of our engines really don't need the added ZDDP and could get away with any SM rated oil for top notch protection.
The Moly and base oil of Redline are outstanding also. I think we are all coming to agree that any SM oil is fine for 99% of the vehicles sold for long engine life. The API, for better or worse, has improved motor oils over the years. They continue to get better, not worse.
The Moly and base oil of Redline are outstanding also. I think we are all coming to agree that any SM oil is fine for 99% of the vehicles sold for long engine life. The API, for better or worse, has improved motor oils over the years. They continue to get better, not worse.
buster well said. I could not have said it any better.
Cujet, what engines are running cast iron pistons ? it must be unique .
All 3 of my Lister CS clone engines use cast iron pistons.
Chris
Chris
OK, so what I get is that SM oils should contain different additives, such as Boron and Moly.
Is this really true? as some VOA's seem to say this is not the case at all. Or are there additives that do not show up on the VOA.
Please know, I want to understand this situation clearly. It would be nice to have (can someone provide a link for me?) some form of list which describes the certifications of oils and what they mean.
If I read the note from Redline Dave correctly, the reduction of ZDDP has resulted in an increase in flat tapped failures. He claims we have reached the tipping point. This is not good news. I read this to mean that SM rated oils are inferior.
Does anybody know which SM oils are up to the task of high performance applications?
Chris
Is this really true? as some VOA's seem to say this is not the case at all. Or are there additives that do not show up on the VOA.
Please know, I want to understand this situation clearly. It would be nice to have (can someone provide a link for me?) some form of list which describes the certifications of oils and what they mean.
If I read the note from Redline Dave correctly, the reduction of ZDDP has resulted in an increase in flat tapped failures. He claims we have reached the tipping point. This is not good news. I read this to mean that SM rated oils are inferior.
Does anybody know which SM oils are up to the task of high performance applications?
Chris
Perhaps it is the flat tappets that are inferior?
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