SLUDGE

[wavinwayne]

michaelc80,

What kind of oil are you putting into your tractors once they are cleaned of sludge?

 

[Pro3qtr]

I suck when it comes to english !

Here is what I found, explains how it is formed on TODAYS smog engines.
My fiindings are on older pre EGR engines, my bad.

http://www.schleeter.com/oil-sludge.htm

 

[tbmmbt]

I was talking to a friend of mine and his take was that the material used for the making of the motors block might have something to do with sludge formation. He has owned a Dodge, A Ford, and a Chevy and the 3 blocks from the different manufacturers where consistantly different. I don't remember which was which but one of the blocks was made with a softer metal compound, another with a little harder material and the third was made with the hardest material of the three. He drove all three vehicles the same, changing the oil the same and used the same oil in all three. One of the vehicles was full of sludge, another wasn't sluged as bad and the third had none at all. Don't know what all this means but he says the material of the blocks is the only thing that is different. He could be wrong. I don't know but something to think about.

 

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Originally posted by tbmmbt:
I was talking to a friend of mine and his take was that the material used for the making of the motors block might have something to do with sludge formation. ... He could be wrong.

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Ya think?

 

[black thunder]

obviously the oil circulation systems, intake systems and whatnot vary (somewhat similar or comletey different) from make to make causing different sludge problems if they do exist.i doubt there would be varying sludge build up because of the simlpe material make-up of the engine itself.

 

[John_E]

quote:

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Originally posted by Pro3qtr:
... Never heard of HIGH temps causing sludge tho, new one to me.
Thinking you are referring to turbo cars right ??

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Yup; see my post, above. The VW/Audi 1.8T failure mode is oil pump starvation, resulting from the accumulation of oil coke "turbo turds" in the oil pump inlet screen. This is definitely a high temperature problem, although I suspect conventional low-temperature short-trip sludge could be baked into turbo turds on a subsequent hard, fast, or long drive followed by a fast shutdown.

 

[Ray H]

Frequent short trips and attendant failure to fully warm the motor oil promotes blowby of partially oxidized fuel fragments, too. These, and partially oxidized motor oil molecules are the sludge building blocks referred to in used oil analysis as "insolubles". As long as they remain small enough to be chemically neutralized and held in suspension by the detergent/dispersant additives, or be dealt with by the oil filter if larger, no problem. But, like cousins who marry, a nearly or totally exhausted additive package and/or a clogged oil filter is never a good thing.

 

[Blue99]

Here, allow me to repeat myself, in case it didn't register the first time around:

So, sludging is a broader problem than just low oil operating temperatures.

Here is one of the current lists of sludge engines, it's not just short trips that promote the formation of sludge:

The following engines were reported by their manufacturers to have a problem with sludge accumulation:

1998-2002 Chrysler 2.7 L LH V6
1998-2002 Dodge Stratus/Chrysler Sebring
1998-2002 Dodge Intrepid/Chrysler Concorde

1998-2003 Saab H engine B204/B234 I4
1998-2003 Saab 9-5 B234 2.3 L
1999 Saab Viggen B234 2.3 L
2000-2002 Saab 9-3 B204 2.0 L
2000-2003 Saab 9-3 convertible B204 2.0 L

1996-2001 Toyota 3.0 L 1MZ V6
August 1996-July 2001 Toyota Camry
June 1998-May 2001 Toyota Camry Solara
July 1997-May 2001 Toyota Sienna
July 1996-May 2001 Toyota Avalon
November 2000-July 2001 Toyota Highlander
August 1998-July 2001 Lexus ES300
January 1998-July 2001 Lexus RX300
1996-2001 Toyota 5SFE I4
August 1996-July 2001 Toyota Camry
June 1998-May 2001 Toyota Camry Solara
August 1996-April 1999 Toyota Celica

1997-2004 Volkswagen VW 1.8t I4
1997-2004 Audi A4 1.8t
1998-2004 Volkswagen Passat 1.8t


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_sludge

 

[Volvohead]

Sludge is like cancer. It might be a complex process, but it is a very common engine killer. There are many ways to get it, and some engine families are more prone to it than others.

I think Molakule's link summed it up nicely.

 

[BrianWC]

Blue99, all I am saying is that yes it does contribute. You DID mention it was part of a broader problem but others in the thread seemed to believe it plays no part at all due to their never having experienced sludge in short trip cars. I've posted SEVERAL times myself what the known factors are that led to the 9-5 and 9-3 engines being sludge prone so I won't repeat it. There are many. Needless to say it isn't JUST frequent short trips. They exacerbate the situation.

 

[michaelc80]

I work on old tractors as a hobby (30's-late 50's vintage) and see a lot of sludged engines. As has been stated, there are a lot of causes of sludge. Quite a few farmers removed the thermostat in N series tractors in the mistaken belief that it would help cool the engine-ones without thermostats are almost aways a mess. Lack of maintenance is another, combined with a lack of (or poor) PCV system. Tractors that have never been rebuilt are usually sludged, I think a lot of it is the quality (or lack thereof) of the old oils from the 30's-50's.

I have had to pull oil pans before and use a small handheld gardening shovel to get the sludge out. It's not unusual to fill a 5 gallon bucket 1/2 up with sludge from an old engine.

Interesting enough-if a tractor has been rebuilt in the 70's-80's and the maintenance has been good I rarely see sludge. A month or so ago I helped adjust the valves and replaced a head gasket on a 2N that had been rebuilt around 1990 (according to the current owner). Pulling the valve cover off showed the valves to be free of sludge, just a little light varnish. Again, I think it's the quality of the oils that makes a big difference as well.