Sludge Rehabilitation Project - 2000 Saab 9-5 2.3t

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10
Location
Seattle, WA
Since I know how much you folks like sludge threads and since I can use all the help that I can get, I've decide to ask for suggestions on rehabilitating my sludged up Saab. I recently purchased a 2000 Saab 9-5 2.3t. These are well known for their sludging, but based on my initial reading, I felt I could handle any problems that came up (no comments on whether this was a good/bad decision, let's focus on what I can do from here on out grin ). First, a few pictures of how it looked when I started: When I had the engine apart, I cleaned the valve cover, oil pan, and sump pickup really well. I also did my best to clean the inside of the head using some spray-on Berrymans carb cleaner (great stuff, BTW). I've replaced the PCV system and installed an oil pressure gauge to aid in monitoring. My current plan is to just use Mobil-1 0W40 and an oversized oil filter with a short OCI. I've already run my first batch of oil through and changed it at 1100 miles. After cutting open the filter, it looks like progress is being made (the filter was about 30% filled with sludge, pictures forthcoming). My commute is about 20 miles each way on the freeway (typically a 30+ minute commute, with about 15-20 minutes of it at a fairly constant 2000+ rpm). I'm monitoring the oil pressure closely, because I expect the sump pickup to clog up again (at least once) and will need to be cleaned. I've also discovered that I can monitor how full of sludge my oil filter is. The new oil pressure gauge is installed using a sandwich adapter just before the oil filter (I know it's not the ideal location, but it's the best I could do); as the filter fills up, the measured oil pressure rises; as the sump clogs up, the oil pressure drops. Comments? Suggestions? Questions?
 
Messages
530
Location
NC
Sounds like your on the right track. Are you just using oil in the sump, dont plan on anything else? Just curious.
 
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Messages
26,115
Location
MA, Mittelfranken.de
Thats the only way to get it done when its that bad, its way beyond genie in a bottle. I'm interesting in the cleaning abilities of Mobil 1 0w40 not just its ability to keep things clean. Thanks for the pics.
 
Messages
1,271
Location
Dallas Texas
I think you have a pretty good plan. Monitor oil color, and perhaps change the filter mid-OCI. (Yours will blacken up pretty quickly and its still fine, just see how long it takes to absorb the color of the sludge it travels through. It means it is cleaning. Nothing more.) M1 0W-40 and 15W-50 are their two best oils, M1 5W-50 is better still but not really needed except in about 2% of cars. The more i think about it, NOT using things like Kreen, MMO, Seafoam, Auto-RX, etc etc but lrather letting a good motor oil (even GC) work is a good idea. Heck, even Supertech can clean it, but a car like that perhaps is worthy of M1 0W-40. Or RL 0W-30. That will have it shiny inside of 50,000 miles it will. laugh Id be willing to bet on it. (Redline exclusive use, that is.) EDIT: rob6773 has a good point, putting in Seafoam ~100 miles before OC does do a good job of blackening the oil, likely since it is dislodging some things. Your engine has a lot that needs cleaned, some question if it does anything, Seafoam is a pretty good cleaner in gas it does "something" it also is good to suck up thrugh brake booster *maybe* once or twice so.. doing that shortly before you know you will change the oil may be good idea. Its up to you. Anything else? I say no. Too fast, too quick = clean, dead, strong but leaking/issues/smoking "what knd of smpoke is that, is it normal, i didnt do that before the ??" engine. "That was NOT like that before you went adding stuff" is a statement that can be avoided by not usin things like that. smile 2cents
 
Messages
115
Location
NY
Maybe a half-pint seafoam treatment with each oil change will help. You put it in right before you dump it.
 

KraZ440

Thread starter
Messages
10
Location
Seattle, WA
I thought about some MMO, but not a full quart. During an oil change, only 4 liters are swapped out (an additional 1.4 liters remains in the oil cooler, etc.). After seeing how quickly my filter is filling up, I think I'll just stick with straight M1 for now. If I put anything else in it, I'm afraid I'll have to drop to a 500 mile OCI. smile If the filter fills up after just 1000 miles, is it best to change the oil too or will most of the nasty stuff get caught by the filter (therefore the oil is still good to go for a while yet)?
 
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961
Location
Ohio
Originally Posted By: Trav
I'm interesting in the cleaning abilities of Mobil 1 0w40 not just its ability to keep things clean.
I'm with Trav on this; It would be really interesting to see what kind of results will come using just Mobil 1 without anything to boost the detergency.
 
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1,271
Location
Dallas Texas
Originally Posted By: KraZ440
I thought about some MMO, but not a full quart. During an oil change, only 4 liters are swapped out (an additional 1.4 liters remains in the oil cooler, etc.). After seeing how quickly my filter is filling up, I think I'll just stick with straight M1 for now. If I put anything else in it, I'm afraid I'll have to drop to a 500 mile OCI. smile If the filter fills up after just 1000 miles, is it best to change the oil too or will most of the nasty stuff get caught by the filter (therefore the oil is still good to go for a while yet)?
Most of the nasty stuff will get caught by the filter (therefore the oil is still good to go for a while yet. smile You could run that M1 0W-40 out to about 6000 to 7500 miles OCI if you changced the filter about three times! Thats the best way to remove sludgy nastiness. (Imagine your oil filter like a doggie poop bag. Treat it the same way.) Let us know how the car running improves too. M1 0W-40 BY ITSELF will clean MORE than conventional with gimmicky, raindance-like Auto-RX etc, though it may have worke wonders for other engines in the past. Letting the oil work really is the best thing to do.
 
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17,301
Location
OH
Short drain intervals with any oil allow the fresh additives to clean more quickly. You could probably do a 2K interval for awhile using any oil, and after a few runs, the engine should be cleaner. After the gross debris are cleaned out, you could consider a solvent like Kreen. I'd do a few short changes and maybe a solvent run before spending money on M1 0W-40. There is a lot to clean out in this engine. I'd try some short runs of Maxlife, PU, PP or QSUD using the MIRs available. You'll have to fib a bit to Ashland, and you'll need a VIN donor or two for SOPUS. My thinking is that you should go cheap until the engine is reasonably clean.
 
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4,630
Location
Decatur AL USA
Nothing wrong with your plan. While their is nothing wrong with your plan I would likely go with a HDEO conventional or blend just based on cost if your going to be changing it out every 1000 mile. Im not convinced a Synthetic PCMO is better than a Conventional HDEO at cleaning.
 
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Messages
4,630
Location
Decatur AL USA
Originally Posted By: 45ACP
Originally Posted By: KraZ440
I thought about some MMO, but not a full quart. During an oil change, only 4 liters are swapped out (an additional 1.4 liters remains in the oil cooler, etc.). After seeing how quickly my filter is filling up, I think I'll just stick with straight M1 for now. If I put anything else in it, I'm afraid I'll have to drop to a 500 mile OCI. smile If the filter fills up after just 1000 miles, is it best to change the oil too or will most of the nasty stuff get caught by the filter (therefore the oil is still good to go for a while yet)?
Most of the nasty stuff will get caught by the filter (therefore the oil is still good to go for a while yet. smile You could run that M1 0W-40 out to about 6000 to 7500 miles OCI if you changced the filter about three times! Thats the best way to remove sludgy nastiness. (Imagine your oil filter like a doggie poop bag. Treat it the same way.) Let us know how the car running improves too. M1 0W-40 BY ITSELF will clean MORE than conventional with gimmicky, raindance-like Auto-RX etc, though it may have worke wonders for other engines in the past. Letting the oil work really is the best thing to do.
I think I like that plan even better.
 

gathermewool

Site Donor
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8,932
Location
New England
Serious question: what makes some of you guys think the additive pack will be depleted within such intervals? You said you cleaned out all of the major gunk traps, right? For the rest, I'd run M1 to a 5k interval and send a sample out. The money you'd save on oil will more than pay for the analysis. Heck, send your first sample out after 1k if it makes you feel better. Change the filter at 1K, and then base subsequent change frequency on how the filters look.
 

KraZ440

Thread starter
Messages
10
Location
Seattle, WA
I stocked up with M1 0W40 last week, when AZ had a 5 quarts of M1 + M1 filter for $32 special, so I'm set with oil for a few changes. I've seen some good comments on the Saab forums regarding Shell Rotella T6 5W40. I was tempted when I went in to stock up on oil, but with the sale that AZ had, it was cheaper to get the M1. My first OCI was with the stock filter size. I've since upgraded to a larger filter. If the sludge accumulation in the filter stays constant for a while, I should be good for at least a 1500 mile OCI on this next go round (based solely on the sludge in the filter).
 
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7,430
Location
beaver land EH?
Originally Posted By: KraZ440
I thought about some MMO, but not a full quart. During an oil change, only 4 liters are swapped out (an additional 1.4 liters remains in the oil cooler, etc.). After seeing how quickly my filter is filling up, I think I'll just stick with straight M1 for now. If I put anything else in it, I'm afraid I'll have to drop to a 500 mile OCI. smile
Might as well try running some Kano labs Kreen instead of some stoddard solvent. My 2c's worth. Q.
 
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1,340
Location
Louisville,KY
I would save nice oil like M1 0-40 for later. Get some dino oil on sale or MIR deal like Peak in AA, some Supertech from Walmart or Delvac. Order bunch of AUTO EXTRA Part # 61851348 filters from RockAuto website for $1.65 if you get 12+ filters. They are similar to WIX and made good. Use 1/2 of MMO first 2 runs, then next run full bottle. Then next two times 1/2 bottle of Kreen. Change those cheap filters every 1k miles. One more run with plain oil with good Flush in the end like LM or Amsoil. Then use your M1 smile I wouldn't hold dino more than 3k while "washing". Then open up engine again and check, will be much cleaner. Tip to drain more oil: when it stopped pouring out, disconnect spark plug wires, and turn engine with starter, you will see some oil coming out. Just my $0.02
 
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KraZ440

Thread starter
Messages
10
Location
Seattle, WA
I owe you all a picture of the inside of my oil filter after 1100 miles of running M1 0W40 (my first real oil change). It looks like the sludge is starting to move. Better in the filter than in the engine. And for those of you that want to know this type of information, this filter was an OCoD. My current filter is M1.
 
Messages
9
Location
Canton, OH
Reviving an old thread if possible... How did the cleaning end up? I am thinking about doing the same to one of these 2.3t engines.
 
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