Oil recommendation: 2005 Saab 9-5 2.3t

[Finn]

Cheers all.

It was time to get a bit newer daily driver and I finally settled for a 2005 Saab 9-5 stw 2.3t which I brought home from Sweden this week. It has just a tad over 100k miles on the clock. My use is a mix of highway/urban driving.

Judging by the service book OCIs have been around 12500 miles (manufacturer's recommendation is 18500 miles = 30k kilometers). Saabs have been suffering from sludge and blocked oil pick-up issues and that is why we are dropping the oil pan tomorrow for check-up and cleaning. As a first aid we changed the oil yesterday with GM 5W-30.

The oil specification in the owner's manual is 0W-30 GM-LL-A-25. If I have understood correctly this was replaced by dexos1 and then by dexos2.

On Saab forums owner's usually often recommend thicker oils such as 0W-40 and 5W-40.

Furthermore, the manual in a sidenote also mentions specification ACEA B3/B4 - literally like this - as a requirement. Wonder if that is a typo or just related to diesel engines?

1. Apart from M1 0W-40 what would you recommend?
2. How would GM-LL-A-25, dexos1 and dexos2 compare to ACEA A3/B3 and A3/B4?

 

[Quattro Pete]

Congrats on a new ride. Post some pics when you get a chance.


Originally Posted By: Finn
1. Apart from M1 0W-40 what would you recommend?

Castrol 0w-40, Castrol 0w-30 A3/B4, Shell Helix Ultra 5w-40...

Quote:

2. How would GM-LL-A-25, dexos1 and dexos2 compare to ACEA A3/B3 and A3/B4?

It's been a while, but IIRC, the original GM-LL-A25 spec basically called for high HT/HS oil, similar to ACEA A3/B4, which has historically been typically advisable for high performance/strenuous/turbo applications.

Then GM replaced it with Dexos1 which is quite different in that Dexos1 is not a high HT/HS spec. Go figure.

 

[Garak]

A dexos1 oil will have an HTHS below 3.5 for sure. A dexos1 oil is an ILSAC type oil, in a 5w-30 or lighter. So, that would be mutually exclusive from an A3/B3 A3/B4 lube. It would be closer to an A1/B1 type lubricant. A dexos2 lube is more like an ACEA C3 lubricant. I don't see any problem with M1 0w-40.

 

[Pontual]

GM spec Dexos2 didnt replace Dexos 1. Dexos2 is for diesel engines while dexos1 is for gasoline engines. Both are current and independent. Dexos1 are semi or fully synthetic, and never pure mineral, as some Dexos 2 are dino.

 

[Finn]

Thanks, gents.

So, if going strictly by my 2005 owner's manual's specification of GM-LL-A-25 then ACEA A3/B4 would be the way to go?

This would help me to reduce my Shell Helix Ultra 5W-40 stash of 25 litres. And with my next order I could move to M1, Shell or Castrol in 0W-40.

Any preference between M1, Shell or Castrol in 0W-40?

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Finn
So, if going strictly by my 2005 owner's manual's specification of GM-LL-A-25 then ACEA A3/B4 would be the way to go?

That's what I would do.

Quote:
Any preference between M1, Shell or Castrol in 0W-40?

If they all meet MB 229.5 spec (as they should), which is probably one of the most stringent gasoline mfg specs today, then I personally consider them equivalent, at which point I go by price/availability to further narrow down the choices.

 

[Finn]

Originally Posted By: Pontual
GM spec Dexos2 didnt replace Dexos 1. Dexos2 is for diesel engines while dexos1 is for gasoline engines. Both are current and independent. Dexos1 are semi or fully synthetic, and never pure mineral, as some Dexos 2 are dino.

Thank you. I have misunderstood the whole dexos thing.

 

[Finn]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
If they all meet MB 229.5 spec (as they should), which is probably one of the most stringent gasoline mfg specs today, then I personally consider them equivalent, at which point I go by price/availability to further narrow down the choices.

I checked and they all meet MB 229.5.

I usually get a bigger batch from Germany and in a 5 liter jug Shell Helix Ultra 0W-40 costs half of what Castrol or M1 costs so I reckon I will continue with Shell products.

FWIW, Shell is auf basis von synthesetechnologie, M1 SCH synthese technologie and Castrol vollsynthese.

 

[BrocLuno]

OK, so I have a 2001 Saab 9-5 2.3t 5-speed that is my daily driver. I looked at the owners manual and looked at the available oils - my OM says synthetic or semi-synthetic. This is supposed to stop coking the oil pick-up, maybe ... Car had 99,000 when I bought it. It has 133,000 now and passes SMOG check with flying colors

The shop I bought to from pulled the pan and cleaned the oil pick-up, installed a new clutch, etc. I started off with 5W-30 Mobi1 and Fram Filter (3614 as I recall). Little tiny thing ...

Very noisy on cold start after sitting two days. So at the end of the 4,000 mile OCI (mine - new car to me, wanna know what things look like...), I changed to Rotella T6 and another Fram filter.

Less noisy, but still there...

Next time around went with Delo400 (Iso-Syn) 15W-40 and WIX filter. I only have to deal with Calif temps - rarely below 0C. Much quieter. The occasional puff of blue smoke at start-up was almost gone. This is a common issue with Calif retro-fitted PCV systems trapping a bit of oil that gets sucked in on cold start... Had been happening since I bought it - occasionally.

Ran Delo400 for two changes. But had some Delvac 15W-40 that I bought on sale, so tried that with a Fram EG 3600 to up the filter size. The bigger 3600 filter fits right on

Same aniti-drain-back valve, etc. Highly recommended

The Delvac has been stone quite on cold start and the engine is less noisy overall at temp. The oils have all come out blackish at 4,000 miles so I know there is dirt/varnish in the engine from the PO and extended drain intervals...

My advice is to 1.) increase the filter size and buy a premium filter (MANN, etc.), 2 Go with thickest oil your car will tolerate at your winter temps (5W-30?) with the highest detergent package you can find. Change in the spring to "summer oil", still with all the detergent you can find...

Short change intervals or swap filters every 3,000 miles or so. Send a sample in to an oil testing lab at one service. Do Not extend your service interval - you do not need to run a partially depleted add pak. Fresh clean oil is your friend

Oil's cheap, this engine is not ...

Listen to the engine - hot and cold. It has hydraulic valve adjusters even though it's OHC. It will tell you if it likes the oil or not ...

Take it easy before shut down and allow the turbo to cool before you shut it off... Watch the boost gauge for any delay in attaining max boost - if any, you either have a turbo going south, or the oil is to thick. If that gauge goes high quick, you are good to go

And I am moving on to Hastings 134 filters (Baldwin) as they are cheap enough (~$6) shipped in bulk from Amazon. I will be changing filters at 3K no matter what I do for oil changes ...

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Finn
FWIW, Shell is auf basis von synthesetechnologie, M1 SCH synthese technologie and Castrol vollsynthese.

Helix Ultra is GTL-based. M1 0w-40 is a concoction of PAO and many other oil bases. Castrol 0w-40 is mostly PAO.

Not that I think it matters as far as the final product goes.

 

[JHZR2]

M1 0w-40 is the best bet.

Basis: 85k in a Saab 9-3.

 

[BrocLuno]

Yeah, prolly for an all around oil, that could be best

 

[Finn]

Oil pan and oil pick-up screen did not turn out to be as bad as I expected - which is nice.

After couple of short flushing OCIs I found in my garage two jugs of Total Quartz 9000 Energy 0W30 of which the first one is now in. After one thousand miles oil looks practically as new.

 

[BrocLuno]

Good for you - looks great