sludge- maintainence or motor

[chad8]

I am seeing quite a few people on this site who are afraid of sludge in their motors and transmissions. I wish we had a polling feature ,but this will suffice.

1) Sludge, is it caused by lack of care, or are some motors just predisposed to it.
2) Have you ever had a motor or transmission ruined by sludge.
3)Have you ever had to clean or repair a motor(or transmission) that was in trouble from sludge and did the repair work for the long haul.

 

[Familyguy]

I haven't seen an engine that was properly maintained and had regular oil changes suffer from any significant amount of sludge since the mid-70s.

I HAVE seen engines with significant sludge since that time, but the common denominator was usually infrequent oil changes with conventional oil or a blown head gasket.

 

[1 SX]

A friend had a 04 Tl with 83K miles on it. The engine had a knock at idle, took it in to the dealer, they tore the engine down, and found it to be sludge up, and alot of worn parts. How can you sludge up 5W20??
But he had to get a new J/Y engine with 60K miles.

 

[alphasparky353]

How many engines are sludged up but the owners dont know?

 

[miker1]

Toyota and several other car makers have had a sludge problem for several years and I know of some engines that were replaced even after the regular warranty had expired. They actually extended the warranty for several model years engines. They are still having issues now, even with regular oil changes. This is not a maintenance or oil issue it is an engine design issue.

 

[TooManyWheels]

My father bought a used Chevy pickup with a worn-out, smoking, 305. We replaced it with a crate 350 and when we pulled the intake off the old motor there was a 2" layer of hardened oil in the valley. I took it out of there in chunks.

I have to believe it was abused or had a bad head gasket, as I have never had any remotely similar problem with my own vehicles, including ones with questionable pasts.

 

[bobfather99]

Originally Posted By: miker1
Toyota and several other car makers have had a sludge problem for several years and I know of some engines that were replaced even after the regular warranty had expired. They actually extended the warranty for several model years engines. They are still having issues now, even with regular oil changes. This is not a maintenance or oil issue it is an engine design issue.


The 2.7 Chrysler is also a sludger due to design, especially if not maintained well.

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: miker1
Toyota and several other car makers have had a sludge problem for several years and I know of some engines that were replaced even after the regular warranty had expired. They actually extended the warranty for several model years engines. They are still having issues now, even with regular oil changes. This is not a maintenance or oil issue it is an engine design issue.


Something Re;high oil temps in the heads and poor oil passages.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: chad8
1) Sludge, is it caused by lack of care, or are some motors just predisposed to it.

Can't separate the two, IMO. Some engines take more effort to avoid sludge than others, but any engine will sludge if it's neglected. Gotta do the right thing for your car.


Originally Posted By: chad8
2) Have you ever had a motor or transmission ruined by sludge.
3)Have you ever had to clean or repair a motor(or transmission) that was in trouble from sludge and did the repair work for the long haul.

No and no, probably because I'm only a hobbyist at most, and not a professional mechanic...

 

[Nick R]

To the best of my knowledge, Chrysler fixed the Sludge problem in the 2.7 for the 2004/2005 model year.

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: rudolphna
To the best of my knowledge, Chrysler fixed the Sludge problem in the 2.7 for the 2004/2005 model year.


Hey what are you doing on here? your supposed to be working on that B&S (lol)

 

[Newtonville]

I think the main reason for sludge formation is cold air temps, humidity, short trips, and low engine temps. There are still a lot of people out there who think a cool running engine is good. I myself took out a thermostat when younger because someone said they knew it was better that way. Of course never changing oil, like is popular with many Toyota owners as they feel it never breaks, causes sludge.

 

[StevieC]

As someone who has ripped apart countless engines and transmissions with my dad to rebuild them. I can tell you that 99.9% of the time, sludge is caused by a lack of proper maintenance or using incorrect fluid specifications as set out in the owners manual. (Eg: Dino where Syn is required)

There are a few engines that are predisposed to sludge, but these are extremely rare. 99.9% of those predisposed engines are cured by running a synthetic and/or modifying the breathing system of the crankcase.

Since I was 11/12 I have been helping my dad rebuild engines/transmissions as a side business (Certified Mechanic) He also worked for Chrysler for 20 years. He is now retired and I help friends/family as needed repair their engines/transmissions.

With all the engines I have done and cylinder heads etc. I would estimate I'm somewhere in the hundreds of engines torn apart.

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
As someone who has ripped apart countless engines and transmissions with my dad to rebuild them. I can tell you that 99.9% of the time, sludge is caused by a lack of proper maintenance or using incorrect fluid specifications as set out in the owners manual. (Eg: Dino where Syn is required)

There are a few engines that are predisposed to sludge, but these are extremely rare. 99.9% of those predisposed engines are cured by running a synthetic and/or modifying the breathing system of the crankcase.

Since I was 11/12 I have been helping my dad rebuild engines/transmissions as a side business. He is now retired and I help friends/family as needed.



Very true,thats another problem with the 1MZ-FE.You must keep a healthy pcv valve in it.

 

[StevieC]

Of the Toyota, Audi, Chrysler systems we have encountered that were the dreaded sludge monsters, we either subbed in a higher volume PCV that wouldn't cause oil burning but would evacuate the gases better or we eliminated the PCV and created a breathing system that would just loosely vent the gases back into the air intake at will.

100% of these engines that we modified were then able to run dino for upwards of 6K mile OCI's as first recommended by the Manufacturers because the engine was breathing properly. I didn't know about UOA's at the time but if I did I'm 100% sure I could have confirmed a better TBN/TAN result with our "modified" setup.

We have a friend that still has his 2.7 Litre sludge monster Chrysler and it now has almost 400K KM (240K miles) on it and he does 10K KM (6K mile) OCI's with bottom of the barrel dino. He had it to us a few weeks back for valve cover gaskets that were leaking. We replace them and the top half of the engine was spotless like it was brand new. Wish I had taken pictures.

The engine uses about 1/2 quart during the OCI and is mechanically sound.

I think this proves that our modification works!

I love modifications that we designed that work.

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Of the Toyota, Audi, Chrysler systems we have encountered that were the dreaded sludge monsters, we either subbed in a higher volume PCV that wouldn't cause oil burning but would evacuate the gases better or we eliminated the PCV and created a breathing system that would just loosely vent the gases back into the air intake at will.

100% of these engines that we modified were then able to run dino for upwards of 6K mile OCI's as first recommended by the Manufacturers because the engine was breathing properly. I didn't know about UOA's at the time but if I did I'm 100% sure I could have confirmed a better TBN/TAN result with our "modified" setup.

We have a friend that still has his 2.7 Litre sludge monster Chrysler and it now has almost 400K KM (240K miles) on it and he does 10K KM (6K mile) OCI's with bottom of the barrel dino. He had it to us a few weeks back for valve cover gaskets that were leaking. We replace them and the top half of the engine was spotless like it was brand new. Wish I had taken pictures.

The engine uses about 1/2 quart during the OCI and is mechanically sound.

I think this proves that our modification works!

I love modifications that we designed that work.

Why cant you live closer to me huh?

 

[StevieC]

There's dinner at my table anytime you are in the neighbourhood!

 

[FZ1]

Very interesting,Stevie. What's your opinion as to when/if to replace pc valves in non sludgers?

 

[FastSUV]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Of the Toyota, Audi, Chrysler systems we have encountered that were the dreaded sludge monsters, we either subbed in a higher volume PCV that wouldn't cause oil burning but would evacuate the gases better or we eliminated the PCV and created a breathing system that would just loosely vent the gases back into the air intake at will.

100% of these engines that we modified were then able to run dino for upwards of 6K mile OCI's as first recommended by the Manufacturers because the engine was breathing properly. I didn't know about UOA's at the time but if I did I'm 100% sure I could have confirmed a better TBN/TAN result with our "modified" setup.

We have a friend that still has his 2.7 Litre sludge monster Chrysler and it now has almost 400K KM (240K miles) on it and he does 10K KM (6K mile) OCI's with bottom of the barrel dino. He had it to us a few weeks back for valve cover gaskets that were leaking. We replace them and the top half of the engine was spotless like it was brand new. Wish I had taken pictures.

The engine uses about 1/2 quart during the OCI and is mechanically sound.

I think this proves that our modification works!

I love modifications that we designed that work.

Tell me more about this mod going from a PCV to a open breather? I have a dodge magnum V8 5.9L in my Jeep and I am told these are also sludge-prone motors. I change the stock PCV valve once per year. But in the past I had wondered about just adding a Mr. Gasket or K&N breather filter to the valve cover...would this replace the PCV?

I have 2 hoses...one on the left valve cover (used for PCV), and one on the right valve cover plummbed to the intake tube...I was planning to eliminate the one going to the intake tube on the right valve cover and use a breather filter instead. But are you telling me this could also be done with no issue in place of the PCV valve?

 

[StevieC]

If you have the vacuum driven one then I would replace it when you do the transmission service. They are cheap parts but do so much for your engine.

If its an electronic PCV like some Ford or Toyota's have then replace when the computer tells you it isn't functioning properly, but clean it about every 50K or so.

If it's a sludger without a modified PCV setup as I described above, and you are using a frequent OCI regiment to prevent sludge then I would replace them every 3rd to 4th oil change, and clean it every oil change with some break cleaner to remove any buildup inside the PCV.