SLUDGE!!! I think I need a hug...(pics)

[TomYoung]

You did a nice job cleaning things up, and I hope that you took pains not to let anything fall back into the engine.

The sludge oil on the cover does not look right and I suspect that you need a new PCV valve. My suspicion is that your sump area is clean, but that sludge is not normal and I would want to know the cause if I were in your shoes.

Maybe a cycle of Seafoam would help you feel that your oil passages and pickup are clean.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: TomYoung
You did a nice job cleaning things up, and I hope that you took pains not to let anything fall back into the engine.

The sludge oil on the cover does not look right and I suspect that you need a new PCV valve. My suspicion is that your sump area is clean, but that sludge is not normal and I would want to know the cause if I were in your shoes.

Maybe a cycle of Seafoam would help you feel that your oil passages and pickup are clean.



oil passages don't get sludge in them. If they do, you have much larger issues.

I would also be hesitant to run a solvent like seafoam in the oil.... Particularly in this case, since it is a supercharged engine.

 

[TomYoung]

I am not one to run to Seafoam, but this engine needs to be cleaned.

In point of fact, oil passages do get blocked by sludge. Ina sludgy engine, the sludge ultimately goes everwhere until the oil circulation is blocked, then the engine siezes.

And while the use of Seafoam is controversial, that the car is supercharged is irrelevant to whether Seafoam should be used.

Best regards all.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

You would have to be moronic to put harsh solvents in a crankcase of a modern engine.

 

[onion]

I've seen much MUCH worse... and I wouldn't lose any sleep over this.

I'd just buy good oil and change it at a relatively short OCI for a while. If it cleans out the sludge- great. If not... then the sludge is staying put and not really causing a problem anyway. If there's no excess oil consumption or oil pressure problems, then it isn't hurting anything.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: TomYoung
I am not one to run to Seafoam, but this engine needs to be cleaned.

In point of fact, oil passages do get blocked by sludge. Ina sludgy engine, the sludge ultimately goes everwhere until the oil circulation is blocked, then the engine siezes.

And while the use of Seafoam is controversial, that the car is supercharged is irrelevant to whether Seafoam should be used.

Best regards all.


Sludge is usually stationary. Particularly light build up like the OP's. Sludge does not form on surfaces where there is steady oil flow (passages) but on surfaces that see splash lubrication, like the visible locations in the OP's pictures. Eventually, if left long enough it can build up to the point of it breaking off and clogging passages. But it does not FORM there.

However, you can get sludge into oil galleries and places it doesn't form by introducing a harsh solvent into the crankcase to break it up... setting it loose to block a drain hole, the pick-up screen, or any number of exciting locations that can lead to engine failure.

With a higher-output supercharged engine, which has elevated cylinder pressure, and subsequent load on the bearings, introducing a harsh solvent to thin the oil and break down the oil's ability to prevent metal-on-metal contact in areas that in this application are higher stress than an N/A motor sure sounds like a swell idea as well. Just swell!

Seafoam is a bad idea. Especially in a supercharged app.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: onion
I've seen much MUCH worse... and I wouldn't lose any sleep over this.

I'd just buy good oil and change it at a relatively short OCI for a while. If it cleans out the sludge- great. If not... then the sludge is staying put and not really causing a problem anyway. If there's no excess oil consumption or oil pressure problems, then it isn't hurting anything.


Exactly. Something like Mobil 1 0w40 which may work to slowly dissolve any remaining build-up in the engine, whilst also likely meeting the lubrication spec's that Mercedes has for this particular power plant.

You get proper lubrication and can work at slowly cleaning the engine.

 

[ltslimjim]

I agree with most everyone here. Good idea trying a few cleanup intervals, but the pan drop is probably severe OCD. Just do some cleanup intervals with a full synthetic product from Pennzoil and perhaps a quart of MMO on top of that. Fill to factory spec, then continue with a reputable full synthetic afterward and midgrade-high end oil filter combo from then on.

 

[ahoier]

Originally Posted By: mongo161
You could run a few OCI's of Pennzoil conventional and some MMO. That might really help in liquefying and cleaning up any unseen areas that need to be reached.
Ignore all the brand references, just buy something that meets the specs for that vehicle year make and model.

But yea, I'd give the quart of MMO a try. It's got 5+ qt capacity right? If so, just make it easy and add a qt of MMO to the oil, and fill the rest with qualifying oil



But yea, I've seen far worse sludge than this...I wouldn't worry too much about it. Keep a couple spare filters on hand, I'd recommend changing them out every 1.5k, especially if you are using MMO or Seafoam in the crankcase.

1.5 oz. of Seafoam per quart of oil shouldn't cause any damage, even to this "modern engine" - The seafoam or even MMO simply works as a surficant to "chip away" at the sludge, re-liquify it, and bring it into suspension, where it can then be filtered by the oil filter...should have no problems using MMO or Seafoam.

I've heard most of the chemical actually burns off after the first 2k miles anyhow.....but leaves that sludge suspended within the oil, so it can be drained when it's due.

 

[ltslimjim]

I wouldn't use SeaFoam like MMO. Just me. If they claim it can 'work' in a 'maximum' of 100 miles before an oil change why run it up to 3K on fresh oil? That side of it is too risky...and IMO if any additives are used an 'idle' flush additive at oil change time is more of a candidate here than SeaFoam. Which application recommendations leave a lot of possibilities from arising, even there recommendations are like OCD on you judging when to change it out if adding it to fresh oil.

http://www.seafoamsales.com/tech-info-gas-engines/

 

[ltslimjim]

^Edit my previous post: "Whose" application..."their" recommendations.

 

[mongo161]

Leer 73,

You've done a nice job cleaning up the top and visible sludge and I bet you could use a Dino Diesel Oil in your super charged MB.

IMO....A Dino diesel like Shell Rotella, Mobil Delvac, Chevron Delo in 15w40 or 10w30, rated SM, would really clean things up in your engine if you ran it for some time.

IMO....The detergents and quality of the oil would break down and dissolve any sludge with some easy OCI's. I currently use it on neighbors, family and friends cars and SUVs, that see very severe service in the NYC area with a lot of short trips and stop and go driving.

I've thinned out the oil a bit, in some instances, with a mix of Formula Shell 5w30 or 5w20, or Quaker State Ultimate Durability synthetic 5w20 to make a blend.

 

[Letter_K]

I'd personally ignore the Conventional OIl responses. Run a good quality synthetic that meets your owners manual and cut the oil change interval down from what you normally would do for the first few oil changes.

Here's what a quick search for the engine shows

Quote:
"Use only synthetic engine oil that is formulated to meet MB Sheet 229.5 or MB Sheet 229.51"


I'd run a good synthetic oil that meets the specs of your engine and the viscosity of your owners manual, unless it says 5W, then 0W should be fine if it meet specs. Don't doctor it up with extra chemicals and flushes and let the oil do its job.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Letter_K
I'd personally ignore the Conventional OIl responses. Run a good quality synthetic that meets your owners manual and cut the oil change interval down from what you normally would do for the first few oil changes.

Here's what a quick search for the engine shows

Quote:
"Use only synthetic engine oil that is formulated to meet MB Sheet 229.5 or MB Sheet 229.51"


I'd run a good synthetic oil that meets the specs of your engine and the viscosity of your owners manual, unless it says 5W, then 0W should be fine if it meet specs. Don't doctor it up with extra chemicals and flushes and let the oil do its job.


Then my suggestion is Mobil 1 0w40.

Quote:

Mobil 1 0W-40 meets key industry and car builder specifications for:

- Mercedes MB 229.5
- Porsche Approval List 2002
- GM-LL-A-025 (gasoline)
- ACEA A3, B3/B4

- BMW Longlife 01
- VW 502.00/505.00/503.01
- GM-LL-B-025 (diesel)
- API SM/CF

 

[UNC017]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL

Then my suggestion is Mobil 1 0w40.



Add my vote on that, and also add my vote AGAINST any additives. Let the oil do the cleaning, and keep the OCIs short for a while. Try to always warm the engine fully and take the highway when you have a choice.

 

[unDummy]

Almost a victim of extended oil changes that are probably recommended by the dealer or manufacturer.

That isn't sludge to worry about.

OP's location is Hawaii. Any full synthetic will work well.

I think that Mobil 1 Highmileage 10w40, or ANY of the 5w40's will work fine. Stick with full synthetic oils.

Make sure engine is getting up to temp. Get a new thermostat and PCV if you haven't already.

Stick with shorter than normal OCIs. I'd change every 5k or 6 months whichever comes 1st. Keep driving, quit worrying, and enjoy the vehicle!

If there an oil top off or oil level indicator?

Manual or automatic?
Hows the coolant, brake fluid, steering fluid... look?

 

[TomYoung]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
You would have to be moronic to put harsh solvents in a crankcase of a modern engine.


Nice language... but you're covered either way as nothing you are driving has a modern engine.

 

[TomYoung]

This post is devolving, partially thanks to me. I attribute it to the awesome pictures of sludge. In deference to the original poster, I would act more aggressively than simply changing the oil. The picture on the valve cover are clearly sludge. If they were caused by an excessively long oil change, then the oil changes will resolve the problem. Another possibilty is the PCV valve, which can be changed on an 87,000 mile car without thinking too much. The chocolately/black look of the sludge on the valve cover could be indicative of a coolant leak, or condensation moisture and short drives.

I will withdraw my Seafoam suggestion to keep the peace, but you need to watch this car very closely... oil changes may not solve the problem alone.

 

[crw]

Call me crazy, but I don't regard MMO or Seafoam as a harsh solvent...

The OP's engine did not appear to be bad. It appears that he did a nice job cleaning it up. Don't worry, be happy, and change that oil before it's "too long". I'd like to see more pics of this car in it's local surroundings. ;-)

 

[glum]

Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
I wouldn't use SeaFoam like MMO. Just me. If they claim it can 'work' in a 'maximum' of 100 miles before an oil change why run it up to 3K on fresh oil?

They don't say that the maximum is 100 miles, except when the oil is nearly ready to be changed in the first place. That's the basis for the "100 miles maximum" advice:

Quote:
This also makes your old oil dirtier, quickly, so a LOF service is necessary when the oil gets dirty.

When used in clean oil, they recommend a max of 3K miles.

I'm not opining either way, because I'm not interested in the kindergarten name calling I keep seeing in these forums. I will say that I don't understand why some people are OK with using a quart of MMO, but scream like a banshee at the idea of using a few ounces of Sea Foam.

And that's the correct spelling--"Sea Foam". Not "Seafoam" or "SeaFoam". Getting it right helps the people who later on use a search engine to find the pearls of wisdom found in this thread.