Should I switch to synthetic?

Pennzoil motor oil
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....and if something bad should happen during the 5-year drivetrain warranty, it's not likely Toyota will void my warranty simply for using the non-API-certified ASL, is there? From what I've read here, it doesn't seem like Toyota would do that to Amsoil products, as long as the viscosity is right.
 
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Originally Posted By: Built_Well
....and if something bad should happen during the 5-year drivetrain warranty, it's not likely Toyota will void my warranty simply for using the non-API-certified ASL, is there? From what I've read here, it doesn't seem like Toyota would do that to Amsoil products, as long as the viscosity is right.


Do you feel lucky?

I've been through a MFG going through my records (incl checking if I used the CORRECT weight) to see if they were going to pay for my repairs.

I KNOW what I'd do.
01.gif
 
Well, I dunno if I feel lucky. I had been considering using Amsoil's XLF next time since it is API-certified, but I really want to use the ASL (which is also 5w30 like XLF), but has a higher TBN value, meaning more zinc and other good stuff.

You don't think using ASL for 6, 8, or 12 months is going to
hose a catalytic converter, do ya? I just wanna hear
how my engine sounds and feel how the car runs with the
ASL in it. Once I experience that, I'll probably go back to
Pennzoil Platinum, or put in the API-certified Amsoil
XLF.
 
Quote:
You don't think using ASL for 6, 8, or 12 months is going to
hose a catalytic converter, do ya?


No ..not even in a decade.
 
Gary, here's a scenario somebody outlined for me from
another online forum when I asked this question:

> You don't think using ASL for 6 or 12 months is going to
> hose a catalytic converter, do ya?

The person replied:

"No. It just shortens the life of the overall life of the converter. Maybe instead of 150K miles you'll get 75K or 100K miles, there's no hard and fast rule. If you don't have emissions testing where you are then you'll never know if your converter is hosed."
====

Whaddya think of their reply?
 
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As far as using a oil goes during the warranty period, follow whatever your owners manual says to the letter. If you don't, you open up grounds for a manufacturer to deny a warranty claim. Magnusen-Moss allows them to deny a warranty claim, as using an unspecified oil would not be an OE-equivalent replacement.

For example in my Mazda owners manual:
Quote:

Use SAE 5W-20 engine oil.

Only use oils “Certified For Gasoline
Engines” by the American Petroleum
Institute (API). An oil with this trademark
symbol conforms to the current engine
and emission system protection standards
and fuel economy requirements of the
International Lubricant Standardization
and Approval Committee (ILSAC),
comprised of U.S. and Japanese
automobile manufacturers.

The quality designation SL, or ILSAC
must be on the label.


Nowhere does it mention synthetic, so as long is its a 5w-20 API SL or ILSAC labeled oil, I'm good to go.
 
Originally Posted By: Built_Well
Gary, here's a scenario somebody outlined for me from
another online forum when I asked this question:

> You don't think using ASL for 6 or 12 months is going to
> hose a catalytic converter, do ya?

The person replied:

"No. It just shortens the life of the overall life of the converter. Maybe instead of 150K miles you'll get 75K or 100K miles, there's no hard and fast rule. If you don't have emissions testing where you are then you'll never know if your converter is hosed."
====

Whaddya think of their reply?


Unless catalyst integrity is going to take a nose dive in the near future, there's no reason to think that they'll die any sooner than they already do. The SL, and back, levels of zinc and phos have been present for a very long time ..under all kinds of engine conditions from picture perfect to oil fogger and I've yet to see too many "premature" failures attributed to a shot cat. Now cats have grenaded/plugged/whatever ..but the usual cause is the fragmentation of the lattice and not any dysfunction in the catalyst itself.

Now there is bona fide evidence that higher zinc/phos levels do degrade cats. I'm of the opinion that the difference between former and current add levels is merely a form of "policy" in trying to get longer cat lifespan due to the national rolling fleet aging. It may contribute as little to the life of cats as going from a 5w30 to a 5w-20 does for your typical fuel consumption.

Also (and I'll entertain authoritative opposing points of view - I'm just reasoning here
21.gif
) since cat poisoning is due to volatilizing of the zinc/phos components, that it would be some type of weighted average based on how much mass zinc and phos passes through the engine. That is, if you're some 3m/3k type ..using SM ..you may be passing more poisoning material through the engine than someone using higher than SL levels if they're using it over a longer duration.

Now THIS disposition (which is mostly reasoned and observed and is opinion) may change if catalyst efficiency criteria are upgraded in future models. For all I know, the evolution to lower additive levels is not to protect the current rolling fleet ..but rather the future rolling fleet that may be held to a much higher standard.
 
Originally Posted By: globey
The XL line is API certified and is a grp III based synthetic. It is a very good oil. I am running the 5W-20 version of it now and I ran and posted a used oil analysis a few weeks ago from my last fill.


Thanks globey. Before I buy some XLF, I just want to make sure that XLF and other XL products are indeed API-*certified* like the anonymous writer at Wikipedia says they are.

Amsoil's own web site does *NOT* say that XLF is API-*certified*. The web site just makes that "recommended" statement about XLF that it makes for its other lines.

Globey (or others), does your bottle of Amsoil XL_ have the API
star on it? Thanks!
 
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Originally Posted By: Built_Well
globey said:
Globey (or others), does your bottle of Amsoil XL_ have the API
star on it? Thanks!


It's API certification is partially why I use it and only use the XL line.
Click to expand...
 
Originally Posted By: cmhj
Originally Posted By: Built_Well
globey said:
Globey (or others), does your bottle of Amsoil XL_ have the API
star on it? Thanks!


It's API certification is partially why I use it and only use the XL line.


So Cmhj, you're saying the API symbol is definitely on your Amsoil XL_ bottle? I guess the symbol must be on the back of the bottle, since the image of the bottle's front on the Amsoil site does not show an API star/circle...

Actually, now that I look at the web site's image again, there is a round symbol on the front of the XLF bottle, but I can't tell if it's the API star.
Click to expand...
 
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Does Amsoil make a 5w30 motor oil that is a PAO (Group IV) oil that is API-certified? XLF is a 5w30 that's API-certified, but it's a Group III oil. I already have a Group III oil in the car (Pennzoil Platinum) and would like to try a PAO next time.

I was surprised to learn that Group III is considered synthetic in North America, but that Group III is not considered to be a synthetic in the European Union.
 
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The ZDP levels in most (or all) of the API SM rated oils today is about 0.08 percent (or about 1 percent, we'll say). Does anyone know what the percentage of ZDP is in AMSOIL's ASL and SSO?
 
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According to an Amsoil TSB that I have, ASL and SSO both have 800 PPM or .080% ZDDP. The same bulletin says that all Amsoil oils, except for AMO, ARO, HDD, TRO AND AHR have the 800/.080% of ZDDP. The mentioned oils have 1376 PPM/.1375%.
 
Thanks FrankN4. I can't believe I mistook 0.08 percent for the value .08 instead of 8 basis points, or the value .0008 !
LOL.gif


I guess using SSO wouldn't be detrimental to your catalytic converter then--at least no more so than any other API SM oil with 8 ppm of ZDDP. That's great news, and makes me more willing to buy SSO instead of XLF.
 
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So now I wonder why it's only Amsoil's XL line that carries API certification. Since the percentage of ZDDP in SSO and ASL is no greater than that in any other API SM rated oil, what's keeping SSO and ASL from being certified?

Is it a matter of the cost of certification or perhaps some other component of the oils that's not allowed under the API SM rules?
 
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I can't find it, but somewhere I have a paper that tells about the process of certification. I do remember that IT COST AROUND $1,000,000 FOR THE TOTAL COST. That isa high end price as I dremember and about half that is possible. I will check again later and see if I can find that paper. I would guess tht Gary Allen or Pablo might know what it is.

I have a 1999 Chevy Cavalier with 201,000 miles and the factory cat converter still works, or it did at 175,000. The oil that I have used it it since day one is 1200 PPM ZDDP.
 
Wow, that's impressive. Just wondering: Do you have a mandatory emissions inspections and maintenance program in your city, where they measure how well a car's catalytic converter is doing?
 
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